Take a break from counting your Gamestop millions! Lots happened this week in the world of recruiting.
Bayard got acquired
TMP rebranded - let the debate fireworks fly!
Workday went shopping
Google threatens the Aussies
Costco shows us how to TikTok for talent,
...and another round of Buy or Sell with 1) Teamflow 2) Clubhouse 3) Multiverse
Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HR’s most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right where it hurts! Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.
Oh yeah. We just sold all our stock shares, which means next week show will be live from the Bora Bora bunker, baby. What's up boys and girls. This is the Chad and Cheese podcast. And I'm your cohost Joel "short seller" Cheeseman
and I'm Chad "suicide watch hedge fund manager" Sowash.
And on this week's show raid and see isn't just a capital rioters battle cry bear gets bought and back by popular demand, buy and sell baby. Let's do this.
Jobvite the leading end to end talent acquisition suite. Named a leader in ATS, recruitment, marketing, CRM, and onboarding on G2. Kim B says "Jobvite is a user friendly passionate enterprise team that takes care of you. Jolly good." Jeffrey R says, "candidates are constantly telling us we get it right compared to other orgs." Love that! Results driven by AI. Connections built by humans. Jobvite, learn how you can evolve your TA function at jobvite.com.
Joel (1m 25s):
Y'all Tripping Tyler here.
Chad (1m 27s):
Joel (1m 29s):
Selling Game Shop shares and doing cocaine and champagne all night.
Chad (1m 43s):
This is totally funky.
Joel (1m 44s):
If you haven't seen the video to this you have to check it out on YouTube.
Chad (1m 44s):
I'll wake up and check the phone. No one got back to me. <inaudible> perhaps the attachments forgot to attend. Let me guess you need to cross reference another references. Cross references pay-to-play and pull your C-suite sheets away. You need 12 weeks to get back to me because your application is under review. We'll know with Dani non more in the air talking shift again, <inaudible> delivery someone else you want to hire 44 don't care.
Chad (2m 28s):
Montell Jordan, kids. Damn. AMS and Hourly come out of the barrel hot with this hilarious video Trippin' Tyler, if you don't remember Tripping Tyler actually did the conference call video when they were actually making fun of getting on conference calls.
Joel (2m 50s):
That's where I know those guys from.
Chad (2m 52s):
Where you come into that conference room and they're like, no, no, you're on mute. You're on mute. And there's actually somebody there that's like mouthing work and the guys are fucking hilarious and they bolt. They pull Montell Jordan in. And this, this is, this is awesome. I've been singing this stupid thing for weeks now.
Joel (3m 9s):
Good stuff. Good stuff. Hat tip to Hourly. Well done. Well played friends. Now, if we can just get Montel on the show, we'll be complete.
Chad (3m 18s):
Dude, dude, it has this kind of like lonely Island vibe. You know the Michael Bolton?
Joel (3m 24s):
Chad (3m 25s):
Where the Michael it's my Dick in a box. God,
Joel (3m 33s):
I like that too.
Chad (3m 34s):
That was good. That was good. Very nice. Very nice. We got a lot of show, dude. Let's let's do some quick shout outs and get to the news man who you got?
Joel (3m 42s):
I got something in the mail the other day.
Chad (3m 44s):
You did? Was it more bourbon? You son of a bitch. You get more bourbon than I did.
Joel (3m 50s):
Yeah, but this is different.
Chad (3m 51s):
So Indeed sent me something.
Joel (3m 53s):
Was it a pile dog shit sent you something,
Chad (3m 58s):
Dude. So I got this flyer and it's three simple ways to hire using Indeed. And I'm going to go through the three steps with you really quick.
Joel (4m 7s):
Three steps. Wow.
Chad (4m 8s):
Yeah. It's just that easy.
Joel (4m 9s):
You've been doing it wrong everybody. It's only three steps.
Chad (4m 12s):
If you're using Indeed. So here it is. Step one, post a job with clear requirements. Step two candidates delivered to you immediately. So what they're doing is they're dipping into their database and all they're doing is matching against your jobs.
Joel (4m 29s):
Chad (4m 29s):
And this in itself is a step where ZipRecruiter kicks their ass because what happens is they're dipping into a bunch of candidates who haven't shown interest. They're just in their database and the candidates haven't applied, right? So ZipRecruiter a little bit different, you put your job in, then it's blasted off to these individuals. Now only when they say yes, I'm interested in, they apply, will the employer see it? So the employer gets interested candidates quickly. And these guys now Indeed wants you to now go through and ask them all to apply for the job.
Chad (5m 13s):
So it seems fast. And step three is interview and hire right from your dashboard here on Indeed. It makes it sound so simple, but ZipRecruiter and ZipRecruiter, just so everybody knows they are not a sponsor, but their process methodology and technology blows this Indeed shit away.
Joel (5m 37s):
Speaking of blowing away, I got to mention, not necessarily shout out, but are you watching this whole Game Stop pumping down short, sell David versus Goliath. I mean it's any thoughts. It's crazy.
Chad (5m 51s):
It is crazy. I think it's interesting because you get all of these hedge fund fuckers who start short selling things. And then they start leaking things to press and investors and those types of things to be able to drive down the stock, which is what they want. They're selling short. And these guys from Reddit, they see it happening and they start buying up all this stock. They start making money and they start killing these hedge funds. So hedge funds lost, I don't know how much money they lost. It might've been in the billions why these motherfuckers are making millions. Yeah,
Joel (6m 25s):
Yeah, yeah. Literally one had to borrow 2 billion plus I think and lost it like within hours because of what was going on. Yeah. Hedge funds get screwed, but you know, getting old, like we, we are Chad, we get to have the benefit of hindsight and you know, you, and I remember the, the nineties and the.com bubble and how crazy shit was when Ameritrade and E-Trade and everything else. And it's this isn't gonna end well, I mean, it's already down 50 some % today. I'm sure. It's like, it's going back to 10, $5. So people are going to get hurt. It's going to get, it's just fucked up.
Joel (7m 5s):
It's going to be it's kinda funny. And people got rich, but there's going to be some people holding the bag that aren't real happy about it.
Chad (7m 12s):
We're talking about hedge fund people who are already millionaires as it is. And for me to feel sorry for them.
Joel (7m 19s):
They're talking about Robin Hooders that are retailers that are people at home and see this shit going on.
Chad (7m 26s):
Robinhood's a scam by the way. Well, we can talk about that later, but that's, I mean, that's where I think we really need to take a look at how, you know, we obviously do business in the market. We can't allow the Robinhoods of the world to do that. Selling short is just to me, fucked up. Anyway.
Joel (7m 42s):
And you and I clearly aren't competent enough in this area to do a show on it. But yes, we wanted to mention it because it's really fucked up. I'm going to mention something. We do know a little bit about hats off to our buddies at Jobvite who, who introduced a free job description helper tool called the job description grader. If you need some help with your job descriptions, particularly when it comes to bias, go check out Jobvite's new tool, the job description grader. Yeah. Yeah. I think this is great for talent acquisition, to be able to put it into a third party because we've been telling hiring managers for years, their shit sucks, their requirements, all that stuff.
Joel (8m 23s):
So it's a couple of different things. First and foremost, you already know that your shit, your job descriptions suck. Now you can show the hiring manager. You can hopefully work through something, but what I want to see Jobvite, do Aman Brar. I know you're listening. I want you to acquire somebody or at least partner with somebody to fix this problem, showing us that the shit sucks and the UI is really cool on this grader, by the way, showing us at sucks is step one. Let's get to that next step, because this is the basic foundation of where everything in hiring starts. And with there's extra money left over, he should buy a podcast. I'm just saying, you know, I, I know, I know a guy, I know a guy.
Joel (9m 5s):
That's a good idea. Another quick shout out for me. And that's it for the intro here. I wanted to just point out, you know, LinkedIn and we got to talk about LinkedIn in every show and we've already got Indeed checked off. So let's get LinkedIn checked off. I noticed on LinkedIn today that their analytics or their views of your posts on LinkedIn are much more robust than they used to be. And I've always thought that it was good that LinkedIn showed you how many views your post has gotten, your video or your share, something that sets them apart from other social media networks. So now if you click on that, it shows you what company, what title, where and where in the world they came from. So it's just a nice little shout out to LinkedIn for giving us a little bit more data.
Joel (9m 49s):
I think it's, I think it's nice.
Chad (9m 51s):
Transparency is a good thing, Joel.
Joel (9m 53s):
It is. And not enough people practice it.
Chad (9m 55s):
That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm mean.
Joel (9m 57s):
Chad (9m 58s):
Topics! Bayard gets bought!
Joel (10m 4s):
Bayard Recruitment Marketing Company, that by the way is like a hundred years fricking old family business, Shamrock Capital, which I guess is a bunch of leprechauns came in LA based investment firm acquired Bayard again. I said, family run since the 1920s Bayard who both of us have friends and people we know really well there and have been working for a long time. They have companies like LL Bean, Walmart, Pfizer, as clients. They told customers that it would be business as usual, which is what they always say, but that customers will benefit from Shamrock's support and expertise.
Joel (10m 45s):
Shamrock has quite a portfolio of media companies. They do have some core competency here. Terms of the deal were not disclosed, shocker Bayard employees, about 200 folks according to LinkedIn. My source says that this was mainly a timing issue. Apparently the founder's son had recently passed away and the time just sort of seemed right to do a deal and Shamrock seemed like the right company. So from my, from my sources, this wasn't a fire sale. This wasn't a shit's shit's going down. It was sorta like timing, right partner seemed like the right time.
Chad (11m 25s):
Yeah. So yeah, I do. I'm not exactly sure who passed away, but I know that they, the families had a hard, you know, 2020 and that, and that is unfortunate. Our condolences go out. No question. Yes. This is awesome. I think from Bayard standpoint, because you have this capital investment, that's actually there. It's interesting, I did hear that it D it definitely was not a clearance rack deal, which is so that, you know, from my understanding, they got some good multiple on it, but, but overall, I mean, buying an agency is buying people and buying those people is really related to buying the portfolio.
Chad (12m 8s):
So yeah, they do have great logos. They really don't have any tech. Right. And if you're a tech company, then your multiples go up dramatically. So they're not really a tech company. The hard part here is if people walk out the door, especially the ones that are not in leadership, but ones that are very integral to the portfolio that could go away quickly. So hopefully that doesn't happen. But that's the volatility of buying an agency is right in your face.
Joel (12m 39s):
Yeah. Yeah. I love the, the wording on the press release. It was a partnership on all the literature and then he got into it and was like, Oh, we've been acquired. So they're definitely pimping this as it's a partnership, and we're going to go into this together and we're going to benefit from all the things that Shamrock brings to the table. So I was trying to keep score in the past couple of years, we've had Arland off the board. We had NAS get acquired as well. And I know I'm missing one or two, but do you think that the trend of acquisitions in the agency space are any telltale signs for what's going on?
Chad (13m 17s):
Obviously hiring's down, recruiting's down, Covid et cetera, et cetera. Right. So we're seeing a lot of infusion of cash in this area because everybody anticipates it's going to come back because it is.
Joel (13m 30s):
Chad (13m 31s):
So this makes sense again, I think that having more capital in Bayard's corner doesn't hurt. It's just, again, it's one of those things you're, you're balancing against volatility and when you have technology, it's not as volatile, right?
Joel (13m 47s):
Chad (13m 48s):
It is an asset that you will keep it as yours versus talent, which again, it's not always there.
Joel (13m 56s):
Yeah. We've always talked about sort of the, you know, the timeline of agencies and from the days where they could just answer the phone and get, you know, 20 grand for a display ad in the New York times are gone. And the type of person that sold that is gone and the person that is selling, you know, high-tech solutions like the are now are really skilled salespeople. And you could argue for sure that that agencies are more important now than they ever have been because of the complexity of buying now. And what tools should you be using. So, yeah, the people are super valuable. So in terms of acquisitions of these companies, it's not just the portfolio, but also the salespeople and the people, they are really, really smart and really, really, really bring value, I think, to the acquiring company.
Joel (14m 46s):
So hats off to this, to them and congrats Bayard, I'm a little disappointed their CEO said he would not come on the show because he wants to keep a low profile, which, you know, agencies love low-profile. So why, why come on and do some media, hopefully he'll change his mind about that.
Chad (15m 4s):
On a beach with a little umbrella drink right now. He doesn't want, he wants nothing to do with you, Cheeseman.
Joel (15m 10s):
I'm going to be in the Bora Bora bunker with us next week on the show.
Chad (15m 14s):
I appreciate that.
Joel (15m 18s):
All right. We go from an acquisition that we like to maybe a brand change that we're not too excited about. What the hell did TMP do last week?
Chad (15m 27s):
First off, I think it's very, very important that we talk about history here. So in 1967, Andy McCalvi founded the Telephone Marketing Programs, which is TMP, right Telephone Marketing Programs, a directional marketing company, focused on yellow page advertising for large multi-site clients. So in '93, McCalvi then partnered with Don Tendler to launch the recruitment division of TMP that happened in '93. In '95, they bought both the Monster Board and Online Career Center, smashed them together in '99.
Chad (16m 10s):
But before that, they went public in '96. In 2003, they were rebranded to Monster Worldwide. So there's been, there's a lot of history that's here. We say that Bayard has been around almost a hundred years, right? What we've seen with TMP is this a huge evolution name, changes people. I mean, it's just, again, it it's a big industry leader that has turned into a more of a tech company, or they've tried to become more of a tech company.
Joel (16m 40s):
Chad (16m 41s):
On Facebook and this, I thought this was interesting, in a private group, about 150 people voted on a Facebook poll and 90 of them voted "I don't care." You voted that you hated it. So why did you hate, why do you hate it?
Joel (16m 60s):
Okay. Well, first of all, kids, this is why you listen to the show because the historical breakdown that Chad just laid on you is priceless. Like you're not going to get that on any other podcasts. So I just want to first off say, that's why you listen to the show. Why do I hate it? First of all, I don't know how to pronounce it. I don't really know how to spell it. And the CEO, Michelle Abbey's posts on LinkedIn, she had to like show you after the name, how you pronounce it, which is never a great sign. When you have a new brand and you have to like show people how to say it. So from that viewpoint, I think it's, it's challenging.
Joel (17m 39s):
Again, your history lesson you gave, I'm going to give a little history lesson on my own and you and I went down the same path as contrast to the TMP thing. I don't know as well as you, you and I both remember New Coke.
Chad (17m 54s):
Joel (17m 54s):
Horrible idea. One of the best known brands in the world changed the recipe, changed the branding, what happened? Right? It, it was fucked up and they even used Coke and the brand, they went back to Coke Classic. And now it's back to Coke. I'll go a little bit closer to present day. You may or may not remember that Netflix launched Quickster about 10 years ago. Quickster was going to be their streaming service. While everybody hated it and the backlash was really serious and the stock went to shit. So they said, no, we're just joking. We're not Quickster, we're still Netflix. Right? They kept the brand. Brands usually change when there's something really bad that happens.
Joel (18m 37s):
You might remember the WorldCom fiasco Anderson consulting that did the books on that deal was kind of a brand in the shitter. So they are now Accenture, right? So brands usually change when they're just bored and have nothing to do. And marketing says, we need to do it. And then they either regret it. Or it's, it works out pretty poorly in most cases or they're in the shitter TMP, I don't think is either one of those. So I'm generally against brand changes. I don't think anyone knows what TMP stands for, except you. And maybe a few other people. I get the idea behind it. The CEO said, quote, "you know, why did we decide to change our name?
Joel (19m 17s):
It's simple, really. Over the past several years, our business has seen tremendous growth." Growth is not a reason to change a brand. But anyway, "both through organic means like our unified platform and through strategic acquisitions around the world rate and see", I am saying that right, right. And see "represents the full integration of TMP worldwide, AIA worldwide. Pringo, CKR carve and maximum combining the best technology solutions and talent under one global roof. This allows us to simplify our story, eliminate brand confusion."You didn't eliminate brand confusion lady "and take ownership of all that we do." That's why I hate it.
Chad (19m 53s):
Wow. I say haters gonna hate and creating, creating a word for global brand instead of finding a word that's already in use. Cause I know we talk about that. Why don't we just find something that's already in use? Well, it might be smarter than you think to make up your own damn word. There are 200,000 English words in the dictionary about 2 million registered companies. Not to mention, you have to be very careful about how, how these words translate into different languages. So overall, I think coming to a new name.
Joel (20m 27s):
I'm sorry, is TMP offensive in Asia?
Chad (20m 30s):
No, let me finish, that's why AIA is in the UK, right? They can't use TMP because there's already another TMP. So legally what they have to do with CARVE, what they have to do with Maximum, what they have to do with all these, these logos. This was an issue that I had earlier on when I thought they were having a civil moment because they could not really consolidate a message into one brand. Now they can. And from my standpoint, the only con I see here is that Radancy sounds like agency.
Joel (21m 7s):
Chad (21m 8s):
And Michelle and team want to move away from being seen as an agency. They want to be seen as a tech organization. Why? Because when they sell this and they're going to sell it. When they sell it, the multiple is going to be so much higher as a tech company. So why pick a name that rhymes with agency? That was really my only con I think them bringing everything under one brand like Symphony is doing, is incredibly smart and necessary if you want to grow globally.
Joel (21m 43s):
My con, is that the M and T and P doesn't sound Stand for Montell all right. Damn. This one came up, came over the wire today, before we did the show. So we don't have a ton to say on it, but Workday acquired People, Analytics and engagement tool pecan, not like pecan pie, but like Peakon U, I guess. I don't know. I don't, I'm sure I'm saying that. Right, but it's look of using a, so Peakon was founded in Copenhagen in 2014, they've raised a shit ton of money, 68 million. So this is kind of a COVID work from home play without the ability to have face-to-face meetings with employees, managers have struggled throughout the year, work from home and the trials and tribulations of the last year have affected the workforce.
Joel (22m 33s):
So Peakon elevates, employee engagement, inclusion, and growth with an all-in-one employee success platform, $700 million. That's a lot of money. Chad, A lot of money. The only thing I think is the biggest con about this is it's with Workday and Workday doesn't integrate anything. Well, I mean, that's, the problem is, you know, Workday has this, this arrogance that, you know, we are all things to everyone. Have you ever tried talking to one of their fucking reps? I mean, they're the most ignorant about our industry, but yet the most arrogant, it just drives me fucking crazy. When you start to talk to them about, okay, usage for multiple platforms, even with point solutions, you guys have to do better with regard to integration and they just don't, they don't fucking get it.
Joel (23m 23s):
So I think that if Peakon was actually bought by somebody else who gave a shit about experience and integrations, it'd be great, but I think Workday has money to throw around. Yeah.
Chad (23m 36s):
And that's what they're doing. They're looking to try to increase wallet, share in a shitty system.
Joel (23m 42s):
Well you know who doesn't give a shit about that. The investors in Peakon got 10X their money, which is great.
Chad (23m 48s):
Good for them.
Joel (23m 49s):
Yeah. Workday is not really the poster child for solid acquisitions and integrations. My viewpoint of this is like, here comes the snowball because we've been talking about work from home companies all year, getting a ton of money. Like this is the trend and Workday basically just set the price for these companies. And so I wouldn't be shocked if you start seeing the dominoes, companies like Remote and other companies that we've talked about, they've gotten money this year, getting gobbled up and flipped. So that was, that was my take from this is that Workday broke the seal for acquiring work from home companies.
Joel (24m 32s):
Chad (24m 34s):
There we go.
Sovren (24m 35s):
You already know that Sovren makes the world's best resume CV parser, but did you know that Sovren also makes the world's best AI matching engine? Only Sovren's AI matching engine goes beyond the buzzwords. With Sovren you control how the engine thinks with every match the Sovren engine tells you what matched and exactly how each matching document was scored. And if you don't agree with the way it's scored the matches, you can simply move some sliders to tell it, to score the matches your way. No other engine on earth gives you that combination of insight and control. With Sovren, matching isn't some frustrating "black box, trust us, it's magic, one shot deal" like all the others. No, with Sovren, matching is completely understandable, completely controllable, and actually kind of fun. Sovren ~ software so human you'll want to take it to dinner.
Joel (25m 34s):
How much do we love Sovren dude?
Chad (25m 36s):
How can you not love Sovren?
Joel (25m 37s):
Everyone knows that's listening and listens to us, knows about the Pappy's giveaway. We've talked about it. And we went to Robert CEO of Sovren and we said, dude, we want to keep the party going. And we want to do more bourbon. We know we can't do Pappy's one because we can't find it.
Chad (25m 55s):
It's fuckin' expensive!
Joel (25m 56s):
It's not exactly like you go to your local liquor store and it's expensive. So, so Chad and I hadn't had an idea of saying why don't we do like a Blockbuster thing. Blockbuster they used to have people's names and they would choose movies, someone to be into like romcom, someone to be into horror movies, et cetera. So why don't we say, why don't we do like a Chad, Chad's choice and a Cheese choice. And so every month we're going to pick a lucky winner. You can register if you haven't already at Chadcheese.com/free put in your information. And Chad and I are going to pick a bourbon of our choice or whiskey of our choice, send it to a lucky winner and then we're going to do a zoom tasting with the bourbon and have a good time.
Joel (26m 36s):
So Sovren hats off to you, baby, keeping the party going in 2021.
Chad (26m 42s):
And they get two bottles of bourbon is what I'm hearing.
Joel (26m 47s):
Chad (26m 47s):
Holy shit. That's awesome. So, so awesome. I want to do some buy or sell!
Joel (26m 52s):
Oh, buy or sell. We love us some buy or sell. All right. First up in, buy or sell, we have Team Flow, a name that's easy to pronounce and spell! They've raised 3.9 million for what it bills as a quote virtual headquarters to engage distributed teams and work based on the screenshots provided to tech crunch in an article, it presents as a sort of visual intranet, like a floor plan that would lead a user to rooms, to collaborate chairs, to have a chat, an area, to collaborate on different apps and so on. It feels so if you've, if you go to the site, like you have a picture profile picture, you have a little halo that shows where you're going.
Joel (27m 38s):
They sort of replicate your office and people that are in it, you can walk around. And if you're in the bubble or the halo of someone, you connect with them on video, I think so it's sort of like Second Life meets Slack or something? Like buy or sell?
Chad (27m 54s):
Yeah, fuck. This one is hard, dude, because I believe companies will like it more than employees, but companies are the ones who are buying, setting protocols, that kind of shit. I don't like it because working in a distributed workforce means I'm knocking out work at eight o'clock at night. And this type of platform makes me feel like I need to be back to my nine to five clock. Right. So I think it's trying to bring the 1950 style of punching a clock into a virtual environment. To me, this is a big sell.
Joel (28m 27s):
Yeah, to me, this feels like the new ping pong table. Like, it sounds really good in theory, but no one plays it because if you play it, you look like a slacker and that you're not working. So to me, if you're dislike, bobbing around on Team Flow, bugging people and talking to people like someone's going to ask, why is, why is Jimmy always, always just pimping around the office, talking to people on Team Flows. So to me? Sell. All right, next up we have, we have Clubhouse. So not specifically a recruitment tool, but this thing is all the rage on the internet. So this is a San Francisco based audio, social network.
Joel (29m 7s):
They just raised a hundred million dollars by a Andreessen Horowitz. They have a billion dollar post money valuation. So I have downloaded this. Hats off to them Aman Brar, who we've talked about. He actually sent me an invite after I joined. Nice. This is a little bit like if you envision a conference and you have people talking about whatever, and then people can join and listen in, they can ask questions. They can follow or connect with other people that are in the room, as well as other people that they know. Topics range from, you know, marketing to Bitcoin, to whatever. You set your interests, so they send you a little alerts about topics that you might be interested in.
Joel (29m 50s):
I just, I'm going to, I'm leaning, sell, but it's really early to tell because I've only dug into it twice.
Chad (29m 59s):
Make a decision.
Joel (29m 59s):
My problem, all right, I'll sell. So my problem is, and I'll regret that for the next year, but I think five years from now I'll be proven, correct. So one problem is scheduling on this is really hard. So it's not an on-demand thing. It's not like a podcast or even a video on Netflix. Like you just sort of have to go in and be part of it. If you get in the middle, you're kind of screwed. Like I missed, I missed it and I don't know what's going on. Connecting. I don't know how that's going to work. Like just cause I follow someone. I don't know if eventually I'll be able to talk to them or we'll have a group that we can all talk together. Come, I've seen a Personia who we talked about. I think last week they actually had a little thing about recruiting and tips and whatever.
Joel (30m 42s):
So brands are going to be all over this I'm sure. But for me, it's like just, just do a podcast and talk on that and have it on demand. Have people subscribe if they want to hear your shit, it is kind of good for just, I just, you know, I want to see what's going on in Hollywood and you know, Jay Lenos on it and Oprah's on it. So I guess there's some, some popular pop culture thing going on, but I don't know. I don't think it's, it reminds me of, if you remember, about 10 years ago, there was a site where you could DJ, do you remember this site? So, so there were like five DJ tables. There were different rooms with different kinds of music. And if a DJ spot opened up, you could take it and play songs. And each DJ would play different song and you'd have little icons in the crowd bobbing up and down and those were real people and they would listen to songs and it was really cool at first.