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Firing Squad: Jason Radisson of Movo

Frontline workers are in high demand. They're essential to keeping the lights on for companies of all sizes. To say there's a lot of money spend on hiring and retaining those employees is an understatement, but the ability to support those initiatives will also managing that workforce is equally important. That's why Movo was built and why Jason Radisson, founder and CEO of the company came on Firing Squad. That's the good news. The bad news is there are lots of competitors with trusted brands and even deeper pockets. So is Movo a knife in a gunfight, or do they bring a special sauce the others don't. Radisson and his background at Uber may just be cooking up something unique, but we'll let the intense line of questioning answer that question. Does he survive The Squad? Gotta listen to find out.


Intro: Like Shark Tank? Then you'll love Firing Squad. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to put the recruiting industry's bravest, buzziest, and baddest startups through the gauntlet to see if they've got what it takes to make it out alive. Dig a foxhole and duck for cover, kids, the Chad and Cheese Podcast is taking it to a whole other level.

Joel Cheeseman: All right, all right, all right, it's your plumber's favorite podcast, everybody, AKA The Chad and Cheese Podcast. I'm your cohost, Joel Cheeseman, joined as always, the Argyle to my John McLean, Chad Sowash is in the house, and it's another Firing Squad with Jason Radisson, founder and CEO of Movo...

Chad Sowash: Movo.

Joel Cheeseman: On a mission to transform work environments and career paths for millions of frontline workers. Jason, welcome to the Firing Squad.

Jason Radisson: Hey, guys, thanks for having me on.

Joel Cheeseman: No problem. No problem. Now, before we get to the business stuff, our listeners probably don't know who you are. Give them a Twitter bio. What makes Jason Radisson tick?

Jason Radisson: Yeah, happy to. So Jason Radisson is my name, I live in Minneapolis, I grew up as the only child of a 16-year-old single mom, I worked all kinds of jobs coming up and I'm just really passionate about work, my family and the outdoors. And I think those three things really combine themselves super well in Minneapolis, big fan of the Twin Cities' recent transplant from Silicon Valley.

Joel Cheeseman: Sixteen-year-old single mother. Wow, that's a whole podcast in and of itself. Jeez.

Jason Radisson: Probably.

Joel Cheeseman: Yeah. Probably is. Well, we're not here for the warm and fuzzy stuff, not at all. Chad, tell him what he's won today.

Chad Sowash: Well, Jason, welcome to the Firing Squad, this is how it's going to go. At the sound of the bell, you are going to have 2 minutes to pitch Movo, at the end of 2 minutes, we're going to hit you up with about 20 minutes of Q and A, so be sure to be concise or we're going to hit you with the crickets, which means you need to tighten it up and move on. At the end of Q and A, you will receive one of the three, a big applause...


Chad Sowash: Happy holidays for Jason's. Looks like you've unwrapped that big exit that you've always wanted. Golf clap.


Chad Sowash: Keep cleaning up reindeer shit. With a good work ethic, you might get a glimpse of market adoption. And last but never least, the firing squad. Bah humbug, take a lump of coal...

Joel Cheeseman: Hell no.

Chad Sowash: And be happy with it, that's the Firing Squad, Jason, are you ready?

Jason Radisson: Ready as I'll ever be.

Joel Cheeseman: Your 2 minutes starts now.

Jason Radisson: So hey, everybody, Movo is a real-time platform that your workforce, if you have a large frontline workforce, the hospitality industry, clinical staff, retail, energy, and clean tech. Movo is a platform where your entire workforce has everything about their workday all day long every day. From timekeeping to communications to a virtual social network to training opportunities and things like shift swapping, and picking up new roles internally, promotion opportunities and opportunities, mobility opportunities and things like that. Movo supports all of those use cases and our clients are largely global companies with big workforces in that space and have realized a 10 to 30 percent improvement in productivity. The initial idea we got for Movo was, I was an exec and early team member in Uber and then in two other gig economy companies, and I really saw this opportunity to take the technology of the gig economy in a modern mobile real-time platform to frontline workforces in traditional companies that weren't blessed with that same kind of technology. And I think the world's just changing, we're entering a phase where there's never going to be more workers, we've got to invest in the workforce that we have in leveling them up and removing frictions from their job. You can find out more about us, you can see client testimonials, you can see demos of the software at, that's M-O-V-O.C-O, thanks a lot.

Joel Cheeseman: All right, I'm sorry. Did you say shift-swapping or wife-swapping? I didn't quite get that.

Jason Radisson: We have not gotten into that yet, not yet.

Chad Sowash: Not yet but it's on the roadmap, it's on the road map.

Joel Cheeseman: You may have to pivot after this podcast. You may have to pivot.

Jason Radisson: Might be good, might be bad for worker engagement.

Joel Cheeseman: Again, another whole podcast we can get out of this. I always ask about the name, but I'm going to put a pin on that for a second. You did time at Uber. Do you have a good Uber story? Do you have a good Travis story for us before we get into everything?

Jason Radisson: Sure. I got lots of them. Let me see one that I can share.

Joel Cheeseman: Pick one.

Jason Radisson: I think one of the biggest things we struggled with was dealing with airports, and we had a lot of these places where we struggled with the local taxi community.

Joel Cheeseman: Vegas.

Jason Radisson: Vegas, in particular, it was one of my cities that you guys have probably seen.

Chad Sowash: It sucks. Yeah.

Jason Radisson: Travis was really in a position where... I think as a company also, we just didn't want to get into a wrong position with Homeland Security and airports. And what we managed to negotiate out and never quite got blessed was a data sharing with McCarran Airport, where we didn't give away personally identifiable information and nothing that would get us in trouble with legal. And we were able to come up with this win-win-win situation that ended up being the way that ridesharing companies communicate with Homeland Security. You want to make sure that you don't have a car full of terrorists driving up to the airport...

Joel Cheeseman: Very important.

Jason Radisson: But you also don't want to be doing something Big Brother-like in sharing people's names and trajectories with authorities. I'll leave it at that, I won't exactly say what the technical solution was, but it's one of those...

Joel Cheeseman: Bending the rules, everything we've seen in the Hulu...

Jason Radisson: One of those, and Travis basically refused to go to any of the meetings, but also didn't block it. So that would be one of my Travis stories.

Joel Cheeseman: Everything is true. Everything is true. Let's get to Movo. Origin of the name. It's a dot co, which 10 years ago you saw a lot of, you don't see a lot of it anymore, it's all io and ai. You guys aren't that old, you founded in 2018. So what's the origin of the name? Did you try to get the dot com? Will you be looking at getting that in the future? Talk about the name.

Jason Radisson: Yeah. Yeah. Domain brokers, beware, but yeah, the origin of the name was... We wanted a name that we could really grow into, and the vision is very broad because very broadly speaking, we're essentially a data and algorithms company inside of an HR company, HR tech company. And Movo was just... It resonates and it pulled really well with the frontline workforce, clients as well, and we thought it was just a great refreshing take on the future of work and particularly gig technology, the development of the flexible workforce. That all sounds really vague, but if you boil down what's out there, I think the route of going very specific ends up getting you into a dead end because you name your company after one feature, and then it gets challenging when you start to build out your roadmap. And so I think we've got a good name from that perspective. The dot co is simply its domain-broker dynamics like dot com, it's taken, not particularly acquirable for an early stage company budget, io and a couple of the other ones as well, and yet we were able to trademark Movo, broadly speaking, for HR tech around the world. So we're pretty protected, we're doing a lot on the SEO front just to make sure that we continue to rank in the top three.

Joel Cheeseman: Got it. Got it. Well, you don't hear frontline work and fresh perspective when it comes to names, so we'll leave it at that.

Jason Radisson: Yea, right, right.

Joel Cheeseman: Now, you don't have what I would call a core competency in recruitment, HR, etcetera. Would you agree? And if not, change my mind. But is that an advantage for what you guys are doing or do you find that it's a learning curve that you're trying to catch up to?

Jason Radisson: Yeah, I would say I've got a recent one. My core competence is designing and deploying big algorithms, and I did it in the consumer space for years. I worked in telecoms, I was part of an algorithms development team in early McKinsey 25 years ago, and then we deployed a bunch of algorithms into banking, into telecoms, into a bunch of consumer businesses. I worked for Gary Loveman at Caesars Entertainment, previously at Harrah's in the rollup of the casino industry. Rolling our algorithmic system, which were a lot of like airline algorithms and otherwise and then eBay and then some of the other e-commerce companies. So I've been deploying massive algorithms like algorithms that see a billion transactions and touches a month kind of a thing going on two decades.

Joel Cheeseman: So I'm going to go ahead, I'm going to bounce off of that.

Chad Sowash: And I have three more points to add to that with seven subplot points.

Joel Cheeseman: There are so many industries that are out there. HR is a slow-to-adopt industry, you've got all this great, fast-moving, fast-paced tech. You were on the cutting, bleeding edge with Uber. Right? You were not on the bleeding edge anymore, at least from an industry standpoint, so why? Why in the hell are you in HR now?

Jason Radisson: Great question, and I think if you look at it, it's, consumer is relatively easy. Digitizing consumers relatively easy because everybody's got a mobile phone, it's got like 20 sensors on it. The problem with B2B is it doesn't exist, you have all the hardware issues and all the interoperability issues and all the corporate leadership issues and all the other things that go with it. And even you could say, The organization isn't designed to be run automatically. We went through this in e-commerce. Right? Because Walmart and Target and Best Buy's organizational structures were merchant organizations. They weren't set up with the kind of general managers that the category manager at Amazon is. So when you look at it, what are the opportunities to really digitize traditional B2B companies?

Jason Radisson: It's on the front line worker, that's the place where you've got consumer kinds of dynamics, and you've got a mobile phone, frankly, in everybody's pocket, that's why we're going after that space. You'd argue ride-sharing and delivery is like a first step in that direction, if you look at what we did with Uber drivers. Right? We hired 5000 Uber drivers a week in the city, we on any given day managed 20, 30, 50,000 people in real time in a city or a small region, we were already digitizing the front line workforce. So now I think that's our bet as a company, we can take those same kind of tactics and tack and we can deploy them into the front line workforce at everybody else's company.

Joel Cheeseman: So you saw that there was a gap, that there was pretty much a legacy tech in your space, and that you guys could fill that gap with more bleeding-edge tech? Is that what I'm hearing?

Jason Radisson: Exactly. Yeah, I think there was a competing model out there for a few years, which was the labor marketplace. And everyone was betting on a labor marketplace and staffing platforms and that kind of thing. And I think the challenge is like you end up with coemployment, you end up with all these career challenges when people are in a temp environment. And so our bet is that that stuff is passe, labor marketplaces are passe, and really what you need to be doing is providing the best tech directly to employers to run their workforce this way.

Joel Cheeseman: So you mentioned hospitality, nursing, and retail, those are incredibly different industries, so how do you cater to them all? Do you try to slam them all into the same process methodology? Because, to be quite frank, we all need to do the same thing, and if so, what is the adoption rate for companies thinking that they can just go ahead and jam their nursing process into a hospitality process?

Jason Radisson: Well, I think if you... Not to go into scheduling processes versus hiring process, onboarding process or whatever, but if we stay macro, the use cases that people need really advanced tech for are really similar. So one of the biggest opportunities out there in the economy in terms of digitization is optimizing... If you look at... We don't have enough frontline workers in the country. Right? Like full stop. And population is aging, so it's not getting better, that's even creating more frontline workforce demand. Right? And we got participation down, so we got less workers to deal with, we've got to make more of the workers that we have. Everybody who's running a large company is walking around with 20, 10, 30% waste in their schedule, it's misallocated nurses, it's warehouse staff that isn't exactly matched to the ordered volume that's coming through. It's these kinds of things, these kinds of opportunities, and so right off the bat, the first thing that we usually look at is staff allocation.

Chad Sowash: So your Uber driver allocation is what I'm hearing.

Jason Radisson: Essentially, yeah.

Joel Cheeseman: Surge pricing.

Jason Radisson: Exactly. Well, surge pricing, if you're dealing with 1099s, it's surge pricing, if you're dealing with your own staff, and it may be flexing your staffing partners up and down and it may be shifting shifts... Swapping shifts, pardon me, and doing these kinds of substitutions. We have clients that literally will move 20, 30% to their staff around every week. And that's the kind of stuff that fills your staffing gap. Then if you're able to sweat your current roster, obviously you don't have the TA gap anymore.

Joel Cheeseman: Jason, so you guys have raised about $10 million. What have you done with that, and what will you do with the remaining? And is there another series coming down the pipe? Talk about the cash.

Jason Radisson: We've been EBITDA positive, EBITDA breakeven positive for about the last year, we did a small strategic raise last year, taking on jobs for the future JFF and SHRM. I think we're likely to continue to do those kinds of raises opportunistically, where we find the right partnerships, but our real goal is to be self-funding from this point forward. Most of what we did with the 10 million that we raised is build a platform and get engineering aligned. We built a lot of product, we've got more than 100 features in our platform.

Joel Cheeseman: And speaking of engineering. So looking at your headcount info on LinkedIn, it looks like you guys have had quite a bit of a cut in the last couple of years. Unless the data is wrong, it looks like about a 28% cut. Engineering and tech and sales being two of the... Ones that were most impacted. Talk about that. Was that a cost savings? Was that a, Hey, we built the platform, we don't need these folks anymore, our sales strategy has changed? Talk about the talent pool.

Jason Radisson: When we came out of... And you guys have probably seen this broadly, I think a lot of us have experienced it day-to-day, but like when we came out of the pandemic, things really shifted, and I think we didn't talk about them a lot. Right? Because during the pandemic, we were running around, we were basically an HDD shop during the pandemic, we were hiring people, we were training them, we were deploying them particularly in North America, trying to get plants back up. And we were literally running around with $200 million of orders, and we were like filling like 10% of them. And I don't think we were alone, I think we have competitors there, the staffing companies were all swamped.

Jason Radisson: And as we came out of the pandemic, a lot of people just calmed down and it went to, We're making do with what we have, we have uncertain demand picture. So there was this real slowdown in hiring and talent acquisition. As we saw it, the crazy days were done like April of last year. And we made some big cuts and readjusted our business and sweat out... We really bulked up because we were hiring. We're looking at... In some months, we were putting 60,000 workers through our platform and through our hiring process. So that was a big adjustment and course correction. Then we went... Like I said, we worked last year on getting EBITDA positive and realigning for the long game that we're playing now.

Joel Cheeseman: So Uber tried getting into this game and they failed. I mean they crashed and burned. So what's different this time around? Obviously, I don't think you were there that time, but what's different this time around?

Jason Radisson: I think Uber Works was a flawed strategy, I think the idea that... And it's a little bit you see it with Wonolo, which is also a company... I think it's a great company, I think it has also fundamentally this flawed strategy, which is, there's the very entry level of the workforce, the unskilled worker, the very casual unskilled worker. It's just a brutal market and it's really tough to build preference with the employees. Those jobs are totally commoditized, there's not any margin in there for anybody, and then on the client side as well, they have seven or eight competitors. And by the way, a guy with fax machine is every bit is able to staff those workers in as Uber's app so it's just a tough business. And I think them going after that market at that time was just destined to end up the way it did.

Joel Cheeseman: Okay. So let's talk about some of the threats and maybe even competitors in the market because we see the paradoxes and the Harrys of the world, I mean they're gobbling up market share, so.

Chad Sowash: Bigger than that, like some gorillas in this space.

Joel Cheeseman: Yeah, they've taken up a lot of market share. So how do you compete? Or is that just a market validation that you just need to be a pilot fish?

Jason Radisson: I think there's plenty of market share to go around because I think this is gonna be a big part of... Right? And we're talking about digitizing B2B. Like I don't think there's gonna be HR software and warehouse management software and other ERPs 20 years from now, I think we're gonna have a couple of platforms that you run a big part of your company on. So I think we're moving in that direction. The linchpin, the strategic pivot here is like who... Pivot point is who has worker preference and who's the app that the worker has on in their pocket all day long everyday because that gives you all the behavioral data, that gives you all the geodata to do any number of use cases and to be, frankly, the AI shop that wins. I don't think this is a chatbot thing. It's not about, Can you do customer service with a chatbot? Or, Can you replace recruiters with a chatbot? I think this is, Are you the mobile app or preference? And a lot of us are gonna compete for it and we'll have slightly different strategies and different approaches. And the world's a big place, I mean I was looking up some numbers on a different topic today. Accenture did 30 billion of SI work in the Fortune 500 in the US last year, so there's room for 20 or 30 companies here easily. And we end up being the workdays in 10 years or whatever.

Chad Sowash: So you've got to be sticky, you've gotta be the lifestyle platform is what I'm hearing, you can't just be an Indeed job search app on the phone, you've gotta be more than that?

Jason Radisson: Yeah. For us, I mean I'm giving away a little bit of trade secrets here, but timekeeping and scheduling is the killer app because that's what gets workers legit reason not... Right? They're not like on Facebook for work doing posts. Like with a legit reason using the app all day long everyday, and it has direct financial impact, it has direct career development impact. The internal labor marketplace is another one, surfacing those shifts that need to be swapped. Hey, my buddy, who's also cross-trained in the ER, needs to get a couple of shifts covered, so.

Joel Cheeseman: Well, where do you start... Where do you start and end? I mean that's the big question. Where do you start and end? Do you start at the top of the funnel and actually do the recruiting portion of it, and then all the way through payroll and scheduling? I mean, Where do you start and end? Because that in itself, from a TAM standpoint, that is pretty broad.

Chad Sowash: Or where do you want to start and end?

Jason Radisson: Right. Right, the biggest lever is productivity in your existing workforce. Right? If you're a big hospital chain, you have 50,000 nurses, the big lever is getting 10% more of productivity out of that workforce. Hiring is an important application, we just have a completely gig-style hiring process. You download the app, you click through a couple of screens, and you're essentially hired, and then you show up at an orientation session. So for the super high-volume hiring that we've done in the last couple of years, that's the process. But I think it... Right? I go back to like it's mobile workforce management, if you wanna really put a wrapper on it. That's where we all should be competing because that's the unlock for the frontline workforce of the world.

Joel Cheeseman: So I'm gonna dig in a little bit with the recruiting side because we have some on the recruiting side that are bleeding into the management side, what you're doing. Do you not see yourself going the other way into recruiting? Will you always be a day one and on or hired onboarding and on?

Jason Radisson: Yeah. Oh, I should say we have a full-fledged recruiting automation offering, and we compete with the fountains and the levers of the world and otherwise, so.

Joel Cheeseman: You don't beat your chest about it.

Jason Radisson: We don't. 'cause we think it's...

Joel Cheeseman: It may exist.

Jason Radisson: Yeah. And like I said, I mean our stat is we hired 600,000 people in the last two years, so it's not like we have some beta that we sort of are thinking about. We know it's there, we don't think it's as strategic as workforce management. And clients will eventually ask us for it, but it's... Right? Because like we were saying, you can't hire your way out of the deficit right now, I think for that reason.

Joel Cheeseman: So you dabble in recruitment, you may bulk that up a little bit as customer demand, yada yada. Okay, so you have a unique perspective on automation because Uber was really focused on automation, I think they partnered with Duquesne or something at some point. I'm going way back in my memory archives. But Uber was really focused on automated drivers and driverless taxis. Employment is the same every week, whether it's a new story about Amazon robots or driverless trucks or something. Talk about that in terms of a threat to your business. In other words, for every robot that comes on the line, every robot that takes blood pressure at a hospital, is that eating away at your profits? And if not, why not?

Jason Radisson: Sure. I think the short answer is, robotics is really hard for these roles and it's gonna take a while. And I think the long game is, think 50 years in the future, 100 years in the future, there's gonna be a lot less of this type of employment. I think if you look at where automation is headed right now, it's really at entry-level white collar work, it's not at... Right? And I'm talking entry-level computer scientists, I'm talking entry-level financial analysts, entry-level lawyers, that's where automation is going to eat, probably the lunch of the next like five to 10 years. And I think it's a broader topic for HR leaders who might be listening to this show, but the broader topic is, How do you help...

Joel Cheeseman: Every HR leader listens to this show? Jason, just so you know.

Jason Radisson: Okay. Just so I know All of them.

Jason Radisson: So it's a broader topic of, How do you help your career starters right now coming out of

college? What does it look like if apprentice programs get hollowed out because your senior engineers are just using some AI assistants instead of using junior engineers anymore? Are bringing them up. Right? So we've got other topics there. But I think nursing, a lot of running highly automated factory lines, field engineering or field technician work, there's a ton of work out there that is just gonna be more tech enabled and it's just gonna level up in the same way like the PC and the internet didn't eat white collar work in the beginning, it just became an enabler and it caused all of us to gain technology skills. I think we have the same thing going on. Nursing will get more technical, and as HR leaders, we have to help the workforce get more technical.

Chad Sowash: And I assume that's where your upskilling feature comes into play.

Jason Radisson: Exactly.

Chad Sowash: I'm not asking you a question, I'm just filling in the blanks in my own mind.

Joel Cheeseman: You're sprinkling, you're sprinkling it in there.

Chad Sowash: I'm sprinkling it. Yeah.

Joel Cheeseman: I appreciate that. Let's talk about go-to-market. So how are we going to market? Are you going straight to brands? Are you working with different companies, being able to get into their portfolios? Being white labeled? How are you doing this?

Jason Radisson: Yeah. So so far we've entirely operated under our own brand, we haven't white-labeled the platform in any market. Our go-to-market is... Our buyer is an early adopter and somebody who is down for change management, hungry for technology, and driven, concerned about helping their workforce get ahead and be higher skilled and be more productive and earn higher wages and things.

Joel Cheeseman: Who are those people? What's the level of that person? That's not the VP of talent acquisition. Is it? Who is that? Who are you getting to?

Jason Radisson: It's a change management CHRO and/or a change management COO or frankly A CEO. And they're not all in North America, we work pretty globally, and wherever those folks are... And internally, the way we look at it is... In every industry and every country, there's a couple of them, and we're not after late adopters or we're not looking for the middle mass of the market yet, we're really trying to work that front edge of change and helping folks digitize.

Joel Cheeseman: Bleeding edge. Yeah.

Jason Radisson: Really, truly, yep. And I think if you look, a great reference is Geoffrey Moore, who wrote the book on tech adoption, crossing the chasm, if folks have read that.

Joel Cheeseman: I'm sorry, I'm sorry, you get into reading and we're done, we're done when you talk about books and whatnot.

Jason Radisson: Sorry.

Joel Cheeseman: So really quickly... I know you like going on. Real quickly, what do you want to be when you grow up? Is this like we want to flip this in a few... Because you've raised money but not like the money that your competition has raised. So either you're really, really much smarter than your competition, which I'm not putting out of the realm of possibility. Or you have much lighter expectations, like you're gonna be bought by a big gorilla at some point. I don't see IPO in your future. And don't give me some work life balance stuff 'cause you work for Uber. So what do you want to... In 30 seconds, What do you want to be when you grow up?

Jason Radisson: We wanna be the HR tech platform to beat for the next 10, 20 years. We literally want to take on the SAPs and the Workdays of the world and replace them with newer technology.

Joel Cheeseman: So a new raise of funds is coming in the near future is what I'm hearing with that answer.

Chad, this sounds expensive as hell. It sounds like it's way out of my budget.

Chad Sowash: Oh it can't be.

Joel Cheeseman: I don't know about yours in Portugal, maybe your European real estate empire can handle it.

Chad Sowash: It's more affordable here, I'm sure, yes.

Joel Cheeseman: Jason, for our listeners that wanna know, How much does this cost? Can I afford it? How do you break down the pricing?

Jason Radisson: Really simple. Wherever you are in the world, it costs about what a sandwich costs to put a worker on Movo for the month. It'd be at 5, 10 bucks, somewhere in that ballpark.

Joel Cheeseman: All right, Jason, it's not sexy, but it's an answer, I'm gonna go first.

Jason Radisson: Okay.

Joel Cheeseman: I'm giving you my 2 cents about this company. So I was initially pretty skeptical. Your background doesn't scream HR tech royalty. I love the Uber play. And you turned me on the whole driver surge pricing, for lack of a better term, of how you bring what your experience is to the workplace and scheduling and managing workers and all. So you built that bridge to me, which was great, which was a big pop in your stock in terms of what I was looking at. I initially thought, "They're gonna get destroyed by the big boys and even the ones that are hoping to be big boys with money they've raised, etcetera." I really think you gotta... I won't say you're a squirt gun at a gunfight or a knife at a gunfight, but you gotta build some tanks, brother, you gotta bring some howitzers to the party and then we can really, I think, start talking about your future. You've got big goals, I do think there's room for a lot of winners, I don't think there's a winner-take-all, Coke, Pepsi, and that's it. I think that a lot of companies are gonna be appealing to certain industries. I like that you're targeting healthcare and... What's the other one?

Jason Radisson: And retail, hospitality also.

Joel Cheeseman: And retail, so you're focused, again, it's a big world, a big market, I think you're global and your mental... Like your focus is global, it's not just Minneapolis or, "Hey, we want to be awesome in St. Paul and the Twin Cities." I think it's much bigger than that. So for me, it's just a money question. Can you raise the money? Can you build the army to go against from the upside, the paradoxed, the fountains, but then also the big boys, the UKGs, the ADPs, Workday I might throw in there, I don't know if you do or not. So you're stuck in this middle ground, like if you want to be the thing, you gotta raise money. So for me, like until you raise that money and build that army, it's a golf clap from me.


Joel Cheeseman: But I'm super optimistic about the business and I like your Uber experience, I think it's gonna pay off in a unique way in our space. Chad, you're up.

Chad Sowash: Oh, here we go. Okay, so Jason, I gotta say early adopters and down-for-change management is not the profile of the HR masses. And I know you're just looking for the bleeding-edge people, but those are gonna be very hard to find. And there's also a lot of catching up to do because one of the gorillas out there, that we mentioned earlier, they're about at 10 million users per month, you guys are around 70,000. Right? So again, there's a lot of ground to make up. Other than that, it really feels like Movo is skating to the puck. Mobile-first for frontline hiring. Mobile workforce management is a winner in the frontline space, period. Right? Hiring 600,000 people in 24 months, that's nothing to shake a stick at. Sticky apps being the actual lifestyle app, process automation, AI load balancing, some of the shit that we've never heard in this space before. I think Joel is wrong with regard to you needing to actually raise a shit ton more money, I think you are in line to be an amazing pilot fish. Definitely get some money, you don't have to go out there and get a shit ton of money, but if you are the RC Cola to the Coke and Pepsi out there, I think you're gonna do damn well. And for that reason, my friend, you're gonna get a big applause from me.


Joel Cheeseman: Congratulations Jason. How do you feel?

Jason Radisson: Thanks guys, it's been awesome, yeah. We're gonna raise it, it's gonna be lean. We've learned also... We've all had the hangover raising too much and maybe it's a little bit of a founder being cautious.

Chad Sowash: A founder, being cautious and smart, and also, yes, hey, you're just riding a different wave, that's cool.

Joel Cheeseman: Fair enough. Now, in the green room, let's talk about this new wife-swapping product that you're gonna be launching soon. Just kidding. For those out there again, Jason, where do you send them if they wanna learn more about Movo?

Jason Radisson: Yeah, you can find us on LinkedIn Movo HQ, or you can find us at our website, C-O.

Joel Cheeseman: That's another firing squad. Jason is still alive and kicking. Chad, another one in the Can. We out.

Chad Sowash: We out.

Outro: This has been the Firing Squad, be sure to subscribe to the Chad and Cheese Podcast so you don't miss an episode. And if you're a startup who wants to face the firing squad, contact the boys today, that's W-W-W dot C-H-A-D-C-H-E-E-S-E dot com.


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