Reunion Squad: Real Links' Sam Davies

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We had employee referral software solution Real Links, and their CEO and co-founder Sam Davies, on Firing Squad four years ago. Chad gave them a rousing applause, while Cheese was a bit more tempered, giving them a gold clap. Needless to say, a lot has happened in the world since January 2020, so we thought a reunion would be apropos. When we last talked to Davies, they had just raised a little over a million bucks, employed nine people and were considering changing their domain from dot-io to a dot-com. So what's new? Ya' gotta listen to find out. Spoiler alert: LinkedIn has been as integral to their business as they thought it'd be. Visit www.reallinks.io for more.

PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION sponsored by:

Disability Solutions works with employers each step of the way as consultative recruiting and engagement strategists for the disability community. 

Intro: Like Shark Tank, then you'll love Firing Squad. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to put the recruiting industry's bravest, ballsiest, and baddest startups through the gauntlet to see if they've got what it takes to make it out alive. Dig a foxhole and duck for cover, kids. The Chad and Cheese podcast is taking it to a whole other level.

Joel: Oh yeah. What's up kids? It's Sam the Butcher's favorite podcast, aka the Chad and Cheese podcast. I am your co-host, Joel Cheeseman. Joined as always, the Bobby to my Craig, Chad Sowash is in the house. And this is a reunion episode of The Firing Squad, and we have brought back Sam Davies, CEO and co-founder at Real Links. Sam, welcome back to the Firing Squad.

Chad: Dude, nobody's gonna get that reference. Nobody's gonna get that reference. Sam the Butcher.

Joel: And it's Sam Davies.

Chad: Craig and Bobby.

Joel: Oh yes. Sam is on the show.

Chad: I'm just saying the reference. That's a great reference, but most of people aren't gonna get it. So let's tie that together.

Joel: But I know that the Brady Bunch is Sam's favorite show growing up.

Chad: There it is. Sam, have you ever watched the Brady Bunch?

Sam Davies: I've gotta say no, sorry guys.

Joel: Oh, come on. Really? But you know there's a show called The Brady Bunch?

Sam Davies: I do. I've heard of the Brady Bunch. I haven't watched that yet.

Chad: Sam the Butcher, that was good.

Joel: There may or may not be a character named Sam the Butcher who brings home the meat to Alice, anyway that's...

Sam Davies: Okay.

Chad: Alice has always taken the meat.

Joel: Just trust me when I say our audience for the most part gets the reference. So it's all good. It's all good. Anyway, welcome to the show, Sam. Before we get back to the pitch you gave us way back in the day and what the company's doing now, give us a little taste about you. What makes you tick, Sam?

Sam Davies: Cool, thanks for doing this again. It's great to be here. So, I'm Sam Davies. I'm the founder and CEO of Real Links. I got into this business, I got a lot of stick for it last time, but after leaving corporate law, no stick this time. Good. But the good part of it was I got referred from one law firm to another and really got me thinking about sort of how you could do things differently. And then got ourselves into Real Links. And it has been one heck of a learning journey since. I don't think I have ever learned so much in my entire life as what I've been through in learning what this sector's about and how to adjust and pivot this platform. And super excited to talk to you about that today.

Chad: Kids, just in case you didn't hear, back in January of 2020, yes, 2020. Sam came on the show and did Firing Squad and this is what we call Reunion Squad. We're gonna play the two minute pitch that he actually performed back then. And then we're gonna talk about what's changed, difference. Obviously we've been through a pandemic, there's been a lot of changes, but we'll talk about that. First and foremost, let's set it up. This is Sam's two-minute pitch from Firing Squad back in January of 2020. Play that beautiful bean footage.

Sam Davies: Employee referrals are a great hiring solution. They lead to a 39% better retention rate and candidates who are 3-4 times more likely to be hired, to name just a few referral stats. The problem is that generally companies struggle to get more than 10% of annual hires through referrals. That's where our employee referral platform Real Links comes in. As you guys know, there are a few other players in the market, so I'm going to focus on what makes us different here. Our platform syncs an employee's connections on LinkedIn, email and Facebook, matches them to live vacancies and notifies HR teams and employees when a match is being made. Employees have huge networks, but it's too unmanageable and time consuming to search through them each time a new vacancy comes up. Our platform makes it manageable and supports diversity in the process as candidate data such as name, ethnicity, nationality and gender is anonymized in the HR view, removing any unconscious bias.

Sam Davies: Ur referral methodology is another key differentiator. We use gamification and rewards. We don't take a one-size-fits-all approach. Each company is different, so we run focus groups to understand employee motivations and customize the gamification to meet their needs. It might be a raffle, it might be a point space leaderboard, but you don't know until you speak to the employees. This way, we're able to increase referral participation and longevity. We also boost participation by letting employees select whether a referral is a recommendation or an introduction. People generally only feel comfortable recommending 4-5 people as referrals, but we have big networks of contacts with relevant skills and experience. Introductions to those contacts are also valuable, allowing employees to identify what sort of referral it is, takes the stigma away from their needing to be recommendations and opens up the referral network. Addressing one of the other key reasons for low engagement, we keep employees updated during the referral journey. Employees no longer feel that their referrals end up in a black hole and there's no transparency. We're already working with a number of large organizations, including McKesson and Adecco. We white label the platform and do a two-way integration with ATSs for our clients. Find out more about us and our pilot offering at reallinks.io.

Chad: Dude, I gotta say, after four years you seem so much calmer.

Joel: Our listeners don't know that Sam hit the crack pipe before that episode of the Firing Squad.

Sam Davies: I mean, the speed. There's, take a breath man. Take a breath.

Joel: Chad, you did not speed that up, right? Chad, you did not speed that up in the editing. Yeah, that's real speed everybody.

Chad: I did not speed that up. No, no, no. He was trying to slam a lot of information into two minutes, lemme tell you.

Joel: How do you feel listening to that pitch here four years later?

Sam Davies: Well, slightly embarrassed. The speed at which I went through that, I think I must've heard like that guys, you got a two-minute pitch. Anyway, a little bit embarrassed, but anyway, it's super interesting actually to listen back to it and actually think about forgetting for one second, how quickly I spoke or the laugh that we heard later on in the podcast, that I've also had to adjust. But actually how different the product is and it's sort of cool to look back and think about how things have changed so much.

Joel: I got a few like sort of housekeeping things from our first, when we first interviewed you. Your URL is reallinks.io and you had mentioned maybe buying the dot-com, which still looks available. Any updates on that?

Sam Davies: Yeah, look, the dot-io is still, it's performing well for us, if I'm honest with you, and that the people who own the dot-com are charging a ridiculous amount of money for it that's just not worthwhile given the traffic that we're seeing on the dot-io.

Joel: So you're good with the i0, like we should not expect a dot-com announcement anytime soon. Also when we first spoke, you had nine employees. What are you up to now?

Sam Davies: 15 of us. Yeah, it's been an interesting journey in that respect as well.

Joel: All remote it sounds or mostly remote?

Sam Davies: It's a combination. We've got some that are office-based in London, but we now hire particularly engineers from different areas of Europe. Yeah, it's a blend.

Joel: Okay. And then the last one is you had raised roughly 1.4 million pounds when we last spoke.

Sam Davies: Yep.

Joel: According to CrunchBase, you have not raised any more money. Give us an update on the funding.

Sam Davies: Sure. We have taken on a little bit, a strategic bump from an organization called Join Talent. They're an embedded talent solution, UK-based, got a really interesting client base. It's a combination of really cementing a strong partnership that would help us to scale, but also taking on a bit more money as well. But otherwise, our growth is fueled by the money we have coming in.

Chad: Yeah. Talk a little bit about that. Because there are a lot of companies that are out there who just want to take cash, and they feel like that's going to propel them to the moon very quickly. You guys haven't done that, right? You've taken little bumps here and there, and I'm sure you've had an opportunity to take a hell of a lot more. Why have you made the decision to not take a lot of money?

Sam Davies: Firstly, it's seeing sort of a path to revenue growth without it, and thinking about front and center of my mind is what that exit would likely be. And my view is, I'm not going to continue raising for vanity sake. And if I want to sell this platform in the next 2-3 years, unless I want to go on and become something much, much more, I need to think very cleverly about what money we take on and what that likely exit will be. Otherwise, the investors and myself are diluting ourselves for no good reason. That's basically the view, thinking about what exit we want and making sure that we get there in the strongest possible position. And what I mean by that is that we've all got a good amount of equity left, and we're all happy when we walk away.

Chad: Amen. What have you learned over the last four years? That's a lot of tip. Over the last four years, what have you learned? What would have been the biggest learnings? Let's say top three, biggest learnings.

Sam Davies: Well, biggest learning would be what I thought was the USP for our product, 100% was not the USP for our product.

Chad: Okay. What's that?

Sam Davies: Okay. When we, and quite rightly, looking back on it, I was critiqued quite heavily on the last podcast when I was talking about the fact that employees have the opportunity to connect their LinkedIn networks to the platform, and the platform would start matching them to live job vacancies. Way too much friction. Quicksand, I think, was the phrase that one of you used on the previous podcast. But that didn't necessarily actually end up being a problem in the sense that LinkedIn changed it, but it was way too much friction for employees. And ultimately, what we realized, to make this platform successful, we needed to solve employee engagement, fundamentally. It was an employee engagement problem that we needed to solve, whereas we were way too focused on ensuring the quality of the people that employees were eventually putting forward. But actually, we were asking way too much of them, and we needed to change that. Our USP has really shifted from a platform that was doing quite complicated bits around asking employees to connect their networks, to a platform that's all about activation.

Sam Davies: How do we nail adoption? How do we activate and how do we amplify? And that shift has changed the way in which we've built our products and the way in which it works today, which I can elaborate on now if you want me to, or we can...

Chad: Yeah, go ahead. No, hit it, man. I want to hear what's changed.

Sam Davies: What we realized was we needed to really crack internal marketing automation. All very well having this clever matching piece that we've spoken about, but we needed to find a way of getting employees to easily share jobs with their networks. And what we realized to do that is we needed to go native. We needed to go native in the channels that employees are using on a day-to-day basis.

Chad: Wait a minute. So LinkedIn wasn't really native. You're talking about... What do you mean by native? Help us out with that real quick.

Sam Davies: Sure. Absolutely. When you're talking employee engagement, what we were asking employees to do previously was come to our platform. Come to the Real Links platform. On the Real links platform, that's where you're going to share your jobs. That's where you're going to share potentially content. You're going to look at your matches. You're going to get your updates. But everything required the employees coming to us, coming to the platform. I did so many focus groups with employees, the system fatigue, the numerous systems they've got to interact with on a daily basis.

Sam Davies: They just don't want that. We started experimenting with the idea that, well, look, if we know our employee bases are using Slack, Teams, and email, why are we asking them to come to the Real Links platform? Why couldn't we get them doing those referral activities within those channels? We took a whole shift change and we instead focused in on building integrations with Slack, Teams, and email. It's been a game changer. Essentially, now as an employee, say you're participating in one of the referral campaigns, you receive a prompt on a Tuesday morning. Hey, Joel, we've got this job for you to refer with your network. You will be able to share that job directly from within Slack or within Teams or within email, depending on what you use. You wouldn't ever need to come to the Real Links platform. To give you an example of this, we work with HelloFresh, one of our clients now. We just ran a campaign with them. It was a three-week hiring drive campaign. 90% of the employees that participated never came to Real Links. They just clicked share, pushed out the content, pushed out the jobs directly within that channel. They got their gamification updates.

Sam Davies: All of that functionality that we previously spoke about in terms of rewarding employees for the referral journey, shares, views, application, that all still exists, but they're getting those updates in the channel that they use, winning those raffles, winning those competitions in the channels that they use. We also came up with a much better way to address matching. That hasn't gone all together, but instead of asking people to do all of this friction-heavy stuff around connecting their networks.

Sam Davies: Joel could receive a message on a Tuesday morning, and we're set for Tuesdays today and it would say, hey Joel, see if you've got any matches in your network. You click on the matches button, it's essentially pushing you directly to your LinkedIn. It's like a safe booty and such. So it's going to take Joel directly to his LinkedIn, to his first connections in the location where he's hiring with the job title, but excluding people at Joel's company.

Sam Davies: So basically all of the risk element of are we messing with LinkedIn goes away 'cause you're just directing people to LinkedIn. One click, none of this friction-heavy stuff, and again, that's been a game changer. We see really, really good engagement with that matching functionality that we never saw with our old tool.

Joel: In short, it's all about push and taking away the friction. Is that about right?

Sam Davies: It's 100% right. And I was, if I look back at like the deals that we've won, like we say the likes of BT, likes of EY over this last period, it's all been because they're like, you mean that you can get our employees to do all of these referral options, but your platform could essentially be invisible. And I'm like, yeah, you can do everything in teams. And that's the excitement factor. That's where these companies are now like, yeah, we want a piece of this product because it makes so much more sense than what we were doing before. And again, it is those referral updates that I spoke about very quickly in that two-minute pitch, they're still happening but they're happening in Teams or in Slack or in email.

Joel: One of the things I hear what falls down is engagement. So you're integrated, but to me, the rewards, whether it's cash or these little bets, like what have you learned in four years about what motivates employees to do this shit?

Sam Davies: Really good point. So I think I spent, again, it was interesting telling you all about how you got to go and do focus groups. Imagine me going to EY and saying, "Hey, to implement this, we're going to run focus groups across your whole organization."

Chad: So that went well. Yeah, no.

Sam Davies: Sure, Sam, come back to me. No, so I think the point that still stands from what I said before was employees want different things. So what we now have is global reward shops, essentially. So if you were to win a raffle or a points-based leaderboard, most of our clients have it set up so you take tokens and then you spend it on what you want. For some employees, that might still be cash. For some employees, that might be like a holiday abroad. For some employees, that might be we work with a gaming company. They spend a lot of their stuff on like one of the gaming sort of voucher pieces that's included in there. We simply don't know. And employees are too broad and too varied for us to even try and work that out with as many focus groups as you want.

Sam Davies: So actually streamlining it so they can choose what they want has been the big development for us. And that's working. The other thing, just quickly to, 'cause I should mention it, Joel, in answer to your question. What a lot of our clients will also have now is a charity element to it. So most campaigns that are run will have like a collective charity goal aspect to it. So for example, in this referral campaign, we're gonna run a collective goal to plant 300 trees. And essentially like activity on Slack or Teams results in more trees being planted, but it could be any charity. So it's a combination of that as well. And that tends to work really well.

Joel: So just so I'm clear, you provide them the good stuff, whether it's charity donations or cash or whatever, the company just decides, okay, what we think our employees will want. And if they change it, that's totally fluid. And you guys just provide the platform to do that.

Sam Davies: Sorry, more than that. So a company would assign a budget. So say you're running a referral campaign for a month, you've got a hiring drive in tech, for example. And that's the other thing about engagement. Most of our clients will run like targeted Slack or Teams or email campaigns where and when they need it, moving away from this always-on approach. But to go back to your question, when you were going with this reward shop methodology, so for a raffle, so say you had like three winners at the end of a campaign, those winners would earn tokens. So it's not like the employee's saying, I'm gonna assign these three rewards, but the employee would then say, okay, I've got 500 tokens. I'm gonna go into the reward shop and decide what I wanna spend that on. So it gives the employee complete freedom to decide what they want.

Joel: But the reward shop is purely powered by you guys.

Sam Davies: So we have partners, reward shop partners. So we use, we partner with a number of them, but the one that's most common is XOXOday. And we use them primarily 'cause they're the most global. So whatever country you're in around the world, be I'm based in the US, it will show you different voucher options. I'm based in India, it's gonna show you different voucher options. So again, it becomes a completely global solution.

Joel: We've seen, and we are seeing companies go to sort of share the link with any, like anyone knows about a job paying $1,000 referral fee and if I know someone who might be a good fit, even though I don't work at the company, I can share that, affiliate marketing style. And if they apply and get a job, then I get paid, even though I'm not an employee at the company. Have you thought about that model? Did you vote against it and why? Where are you guys on expanding the referral stuff outside of the employee base?

Sam Davies: Yeah, it's already happening with a few of our clients, although not quite to everybody. So they're using it for early careers hiring. So we've got two of our clients now that use it for early careers. And the reason I say it's beyond the employee pool is because they're trying to engage university students who are either doing apprenticeships or internships with them. So EY would be a good example of this. And they're engaging those university students to then become almost like brand ambassadors for them on campus to share those grad jobs or those apprenticeship jobs with their fellow network. So that's already happening. So that's an example of external referrals. Alumni is another example. In terms of making it work and going even bigger, one of our clients is currently considering it. We would definitely support it. There are tax implications when you're sort of rewarding people who aren't your employees, but it can be done. And we've certainly seen a huge amount of success for that early careers piece and getting interns, apprentices to start sharing jobs and content with their networks before even joining the company.

Chad: So Sam, talk about the response that you started receiving from brands, from prospective customers. Once you moved from a come to Real Links to come to Teams, Slack, email, what was their response to you? Because you've been talking to these people for a while and then you switched. I mean, you pivoted, right? So what was the response at that point? And when did you know this is it?

Sam Davies: So I was going back to some of the companies that we previously demoed to. So we'd previously spoken to EY, we'd previously spoken to BT, previously spoken to HelloFresh, a number of them.

Chad: Ones who weren't clients?

Sam Davies: Ones who weren't clients.

Chad: Okay.

Sam Davies: So these weren't clients and we pitched the platform to them. We then went back, we then showed them what we were doing here. It was like night and day. It was a complete transition. And I think I'm seeing more of that enterprise level because any enterprise company has just got so many systems. I think when you speak to an enterprise, they're like, that's where you've really hit a sweet spot 'cause they're like, okay, this is perfect. I can achieve what I want here, get maximum employee engagement without asking my employees to join another system.

Sam Davies: That sort of idea that we could be an invisible platform. And our pipeline and our courses over the last period have been almost transformational for us. And that is simply down to the fact that we were peddling the wrong tool in lots of ways. And that's a massive learning, right? But you don't know when you're a startup and you're learning as you go. And thankfully we realized the sort of error of our ways while we had a good amount of time left and have been able to course correct. And I think the other aspect of this, guys, is not only has it helped for conversations because it appeals, but we're seeing the results. As I was having a look over some of the case studies before we jumped on here. We work with an organization called Celonis. We've increased our referral hires from 9%-33% within less than a year. I think we got them up there within sort of a six-month period. And again, it's all just about making sure your engagement is in the channels that employees are using on a daily basis. And that's absolutely fundamental. And we're seeing that across the board now.

Chad: Let's talk a little bit about the perspective numbing effect though, because you get into some of these systems, right? And one of the problems we've seen, I think with referrals over the years is that you just blast your employees with these referrals over and it's every day and it's constantly, right?

Sam Davies: 100%

Chad: How are you going to ensure that that numbing doesn't happen? Can you?

SFX: Just the tip.

[laughter]

Sam Davies: What we realized again was one of the other problems was exactly what you're describing. These generic automated comms going from our platform to employees being here's the latest jobs. And we thought we cracked it because we applied some relevancy to it. So we were like, the weekly email that everybody gets is going to show the jobs that are most related to that individual. So trouble is you send anybody a weekly email with jobs, they're going to switch off. So when we rebuilt the platform and it really was a rebuild of the platform, we built a campaign builder.

Sam Davies: So essentially it now works that when we're talking about sending you these Slack or Teams or email comms, you're building a campaign to support whatever objective you have at that moment in time. Do I have a hiring drive in tech? Okay, let's build a campaign for tech. When you're running a hiring drive in tech, you're only adding your tech jobs or any content that's going to support that, but you're inviting employees to participate in that campaign who have relevant networks. So if we're sending these automated Slack messages to go with that example for a tech hiring campaign, those messages are only going to the product teams or the tech teams or the teams that we think would have relevant networks for those campaigns.

Sam Davies: So you're running these referral campaigns where and when you need them. You're moving away from this, I'm just going to blast everybody with like the same email every week. If you take that approach, if you take what I call the always-on approach, even if you use Slack or Teams or email, you're still gonna lead to an engagement drop off. You've got to run campaigns. Campaigning is absolutely fundamental and engage employees where and when you need it. The other sort of, I guess, development that's worth mentioning to you guys is because we started seeing such good engagement in terms of employee sharing jobs, let's go with HelloFresh, for example. They're like, can we use this for content sharing? Could we use this for employer brand advocacy? And we've got as many clients now using the platform for employer brand activation, employer brand advocacy, as we do referrals.

Chad: And this was their idea, not your idea?

Sam Davies: Well, yeah, they had the content. So we had, again, there was a version of our platform previously that did facilitate the sharing of content. So it wasn't completely alien to them. That was there, but it was let's start funneling that content through these channels as well. And again, to give you an example of that, we've got lots of clients now that are building up ambassador programs using the platform. There's a lot of organizations now that they're trying to turn all of their employee populations into brand ambassadors or employer brand ambassadors. They'll usually do that by creating a Teams channel or a Slack channel. And that's the way in which they're manually trying to engage them to share content to support employer brand. They're now able to automate all of that via the Real Links platform. So we're seeing ambassador communities being built using the Real Links tool as well, which is awesome. And it's got that dual use, which is, again, it's helping us as a business to accelerate from a growth perspective.

Joel: Sam, when we spoke four years ago, you were pretty much LinkedIn integrated. And I had a question around, what about the people who aren't on LinkedIn? Seems like there's a whole universe of folks, working class, blue collar, on the line, on the move, that are outside of the referral product. Are you still looking at that as an opportunity? Do you think it's just a waste of time to try to get them engaged as you do with companies that are on Slack, in Teams? There are a lot of companies and employees that don't use those products.

Sam Davies: No, it's a great question. So we also, well, we've got a number of clients that have a number of employees that are on the shop floor or in warehouses. And it's our job to make sure that we engage them as well. There are a few different ways that we do that. One could be through, so we've got one client, they're called Expedia. It's like field marketing. So everybody's on site all the time. They'll do it through automated emails to people's personal emails and employees at their organization are able to one-click share from the email. We can also do that via WhatsApp, so automated WhatsApp messages to employees on site to the extent that a company has permissions to do that, or automated text messages. And then with other organizations as well.

Sam Davies: I'm not sure if we spoke about it last time, but we do have a mobile app. So we've got companies that fall into the category you're talking about, Joel, that would have QR codes up on site as well, and employees would scan the QR code and at which point, from an activation perspective, they'll receive push notifications via the app. So when you're talking that employee group, we're really focusing on like WhatsApp, text message, email to the extent that that's gonna work. And it, and that by the way, that works super successfully for that Expedia company.

Joel: So you have native apps on Android and iPhone?

Sam Davies: Yes, we do.

Joel: How's that engagement? How's that going? And when did that launch?

Sam Davies: We launched that for a client probably about nine months ago.

Joel: Okay.

Sam Davies: Maybe.

Joel: So new.

Sam Davies: Yeah. Yeah. So relatively new. But yeah, look, it's all about, with all of that, it's about that initial adoption piece. And in order to crack that, that'd be a combination of things, posters on site, trickle downs from sort of managers and teams, team meetings to the extent that we can use email, WhatsApp and text, pushing it out that way, that that's sort of fundamental to get everybody on the app. So if you get that right, you are in a strong position but then making sure that, just like I spoke about with sort of Teams and Slack, we're doing sensible push notifications to bring them back and take the actions that we want them to take. Yes, we support LinkedIn, but these employees are primarily sharing on Facebook, on WhatsApp, on Twitter. Our goal is really to be a referral and advocacy solution for any company. We wanna be industry agnostic, and we've got success stories now to back that up. So they're excited to support different employee types. And again, to go to HelloFresh, we're in conversations with them to support them in one of their delivery centers, for example.

Joel: My man loves dropping HelloFresh.

Sam Davies: I do. I do. I do.

[laughter]

Joel: Clearly it was McKesson when we first talked. McKesson came outta your mouth a lot. Now it's HelloFresh. Okay, so you're four some years into this journey.

Sam Davies: Yeah.

Joel: Where do you stand on, what do you want to be when you grow up? Are we looking acquisition? Obviously I'm assuming IPO is not in the future. Is it just gonna continue to organically grow? What's your vision for the next four years?

Sam Davies: So my vision would be to organically grow and ideally sell within the next four years. So we've got some growth to do over the next 2-3 years to get there.

Joel: Love the honesty, by the way. I love it when people are like, eh, we're looking to sell next year, next couple years. So good for you for honesty.

Sam Davies: No, I mean, look, realistically, I think, it's not something that's gonna probably happen in the next two years.

Joel: And who's a good potential buyer for a referral company? Is it an ATS, is it one of these remote platforms? What do you think?

Sam Davies: It's. I would say that we, yeah, the ATS route is definitely a strong path for us. I think the reality is we've got a very good referral and advocacy module now, and if an ATS snaps us up, they could easily sell that onto their customer base and make a tidy return. So, it's a good route. There's also CRMs, obviously big CRMs in the market, big HR systems, obviously you saw Radancy bought...

Chad: Firstbird.

Sam Davies: Firstbird, for example. So there are different routes, but yeah, I'd say the ATS route is obviously, probably what...

Chad: Well, friends, that's Sam Davies. Thanks again for coming back to give us an update. Again, four years ago, who the hell, I mean, that went fast, my friend. If somebody wants to get ahold of you, they want to get away from the friction, how can they get ahold of you and where can they find more about Real Links?

Sam Davies: Yeah, if you can hit up reallinks.io, not dot-com yet, Joel, reallinks.io. Or if you just wanna hit me up straight away, sam@reallinks.io.

Joel: Sam the Butcher Davies Jr. Everybody. Chad, that's another reunion pod in the can. We out.

Chad: We out.

Outro: This has been the Firing Squad. Be sure to subscribe to the Chad and Cheese podcast so you don't miss an episode. And if you're a startup who wants to face the Firing Squad, contact the boys@chadcheese.com today. That's www.chadcheese.com.