March Madness is podcast madness, apparently.
On this week's episode, the "badasses" are talkin':
- Wait... Albert the Frog has LinkedIn endorsements?
- RealMatch is now PandoLogic, er, pandoIQ er, PandoProdux?
- New CareerBuilder looks pretty much like the old CareerBuilder, minus the orange Chucks
- Monster's new 'hype' video and adds purple Chucks
... and a shit-ton more...
Joel Cheesman: Chad and Cheese is brought to you by Ratedly. Stop manually checking your anonymous employer reviews. Ratedly monitors over a dozen sites online automatically for you. Visit ratedly.com today to learn more.
Announcer: Hide your kids. Lock the doors. You're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts. Complete with breaking news, brash opinion, and loads of snark. Buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.
Joel Cheesman: Welcome to March, boys and girls. Welcome to Chad and Cheese, HR's most dangerous podcast. I'm Joel Cheesman.
Chad Sowash: And I'm Chad Sowash.
Joel Cheesman: On this week's episode, Google continues to kick ass and take names. Glassdoor eyes, Wall Street, and Real Match really rebrands itself, Pandologic Really. Really, Real Match? Stay tuned. We'll be right back for real.
Chad Sowash: Really, really.
Joel Cheesman: Really, really.
Announcer: America's Job Exchange is celebrating our tenth year as an industry leader in diversity recruitment of OFCCP compliance. We've been helping our 1000 plus customers comply with OFCCP regulations that directly support positive and effective diversity recruitment, designed to attract and convert veterans, individuals with disabilities, women, and minorities and empower employers to pursue and track active outreach with their local community based organizations. Want to learn more? Call us at 866-926-6284 or visit us at www.americasjobexchange.com.
Chad Sowash: I feel all nice and warm and cozy in my America's Job Exchange Columbia jacket.
Joel Cheesman: As I'm writing show notes in my AJE notebook, yes. They need a new ad, man. They've had that one for a while. We need to get on them for a little spunky ad.
Chad Sowash: Oh yeah, oh yeah. Well, I mean, [crosstalk 00:02:16] when it comes to compliance, you've got to sex it up, right? So we might have to do a little bit of that. We'll just put the Barry White of podcasting on that.
Joel Cheesman: Did you say compliance? I think you did. Oh man. All right. We've got two rants to start off the show. Do you want to go first or you want me to rant away?
Chad Sowash: Oh, you know I do.
Joel Cheesman: Okay.
Chad Sowash: Do you receive these random LinkedIn endorsement from people you don't even know?
Joel Cheesman: Yeah.
Chad Sowash: Okay, okay. So like Jeff endorses you for leadership. And I'm like, "I don't even know who the fuck Jeff is." I mean, I've never worked with Jeff, so I thought for some reason, I don't know why. But I thought I'm going to go check this out. I'm going to go check Albert the Frog's profile to see if this purple little guy actually ... No, seriously. I want to see if he receives endorsement.
Joel Cheesman: Don't tell me the frog has endorsements.
Chad Sowash: The frog has endorsements. As a matter of fact, six people endorsed a damn purple frog for talent acquisition. And this is gone too God damn far, LinkedIn. It's time to get rid of endorsements because we all know they're just a ploy to suck us back into your system. But they don't really mean anything.
Joel Cheesman: Did you know any of the endorsers?
Chad Sowash: I did not. I was actually second connection to all of them. But I do know, just being connected to this purple frog. I mean, come on. So Jim Stroud, buddy Jim Stroud, we love him. John Sumser, the couple of guys, they're connected to this guy. I mean, come on. They were not-
Joel Cheesman: Come on, Jimmy.
Chad Sowash: They didn't provide any endorsements although, I mean, come on. This is literally, this is not legit for a quote unquote "professional platform", especially when we have Twitter and Facebook going through all this validation shit with bots and whatnot. Don't play with the fucking purple frog, okay?
Joel Cheesman: Agreed, agreed. Now what company is the frog again? Do we know?
Chad Sowash: Preferred Hired, I think.
Joel Cheesman: Preferred Hired, okay.
Chad Sowash: Yeah.
Joel Cheesman: All right. Yeah. Change that. My rant is LinkedIn as well.
Chad Sowash: Really?
Joel Cheesman: Basically. So, I don't know if it's a millennial thing because most of the cases are with younger folk.
Chad Sowash: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Joel Cheesman: But they connect with you on LinkedIn and I appreciate the fact that maybe they listen to the show or they read my shit or whatever, but as soon as they connect, they email me and they want advise. They want connections. They want something. It's like, take, take, take. And you got to give in this industry, people. Don't just take. Give three times or more before you ask for something. Or at least tell me, "Man, you wrote such and such," or "When you said such and such, I really liked that and here's why." And then maybe get around to asking me for something. Don't just ask me for something as soon as I connect with you.
Chad Sowash: Well, that's not a LinkedIn rant. That is really a millennial rant but they're trying to get at you through the professional mechanism as we know as LinkedIn which also houses a purple frog named Albert. I know we have LinkedIn peeps that listen to us. Can you please fix this shit? That would be awesome.
Joel Cheesman: Fix the millennials' LinkedIn. If you can do that, we'll all be a lot happier. Okay, let's get onto the real thing.
Chad Sowash: Shout outs. Okay, so shout out to Thomas and Jim over at Talent Nexus. So, it's interesting because we're hearing so much about Google for jobs and whatnot here in the states because we see it. They're not seeing it in Europe yet but they're going on. From my understand, job boards across the pond are scared as hell about Google For Jobs.
Joel Cheesman: As they should.
Chad Sowash: The total uncertainty is apparently paralyzing them right now, which is another great reason why ... Listen up, people. If you're over in Europe and you're not going to TA Tech in Europe, in Dublin, this is one of these reasons why we have these types of conferences. You should be there. If you haven't registered for TA Tech Dublin. It's tatecheurope.io or go to
and click on the banner, "Meet Chad and Cheese". It's right there, too. But you should be there. If you're paralyzed or you're uncertain about Google For Jobs, then go find out about this shit, guys.
Joel Cheesman: Because Chad and I will be there. We may not be sober enough to remember our conversation, but we will be in Dublin at some point this month. Which also remind the folks of our Vegas tour later on in April, is that right? We're doing TA Tech in Vegas and also Shurm. So we're going to kill it in Vegas.
Chad Sowash: TA Tech, I mean Peter and the gang over there, they know and I think they've baby-proofed everything for TA Tech. I call it the Spring Edition. For some reason, Peter likes to call it a Congress but we all know Congress doesn't get shit accomplished. So I'm rebranding it at TA Tech Spring Edition. Once again, go to the Chad Cheese Website. Click on Meet Us, the Chad and Cheese. We're also going to be at SHRM Talent, who I guarantee you have not baby-proofed anything for Chad and Cheese while we're in Vegas.
Joel Cheesman: They don't know what the hell's coming at them at that show.
Chad Sowash: SHRM, SHRM, SHRM-
Joel Cheesman: Is engaging with us.
Chad Sowash: It's awesome.
Joel Cheesman: It's the end of the world as we know it. Millennial and SHRM, okay. Here we go.
Chad Sowash: You've been getting trolled by Jonathan Zila on Twitter so I wanted to give a quick #ChadCheese shout out to Johnathan. Love that guy. Keep trolling Joel. We love it. Mason Wong-
Joel Cheesman: All right, stop, stop, stop. Okay. Zila, number one, he's jealous of my beard because it's better than his. And number two, he comes off as this really nice spiritual sort of earthy granola guy. And then he just unloads on Twitter. So Zila, I'm not buying it, your little Recruitics, analytics company isn't fooling anybody. We know the real you and the next time I see you, I'm shaving the beard of, just to be ready.
Chad Sowash: Okay. So I would have your body guards ready. You won't need it for Joel because he's not going to do it, seriously. Mason Wong, also trolling you. He said, "Yammer my ass." He didn't really say that. I'm putting words in his mouth. He said, "Joel, you need to get educated on Microsoft Teams." Because we were talking about the whole dynamic signal thing. He's like, "Yeah, you got to get edumacated, Joel."
Joel Cheesman: Was this Mason?
Chad Sowash: That was Mason. Mason's trolling.
Joel Cheesman: Mason.
Chad Sowash: Oh yeah.
Joel Cheesman: Mason's usually my buddy, man. Come on, Mason.
Chad Sowash: Damn.
Joel Cheesman: I'm going to get yammerifed on these folks.
Chad Sowash: Shout out to the Hawk brothers, Tim, Bill, and Brian, they all listen. I can't remember which one said it. It was either Bill or Brian but they referred to the podcast as "The Badass Podcast".
Joel Cheesman: Dude, do they know that we're two middle aged white dudes in our 40s? Hardly badass.
Chad Sowash: I'm badass. I don't know about you. I'm total badass.
Joel Cheesman: Good lord.
Chad Sowash: You got a shout out from Robin Hannah over at Dynamic Signal, didn't you?
Joel Cheesman: Oh, dude, this is like the Hate Joel shout out day, so all of you can go to hell. Yes, Robin, the PR chick at Dynamic Signal got all uppity on me. She wants to schedule a call, show me demo, try to change my mind about the company. Okay, Robin. I'll talk to you. I'll give you some time to change my mind and if you do, I'll go on the air and tell you I was wrong about Dynamics.
Chad Sowash: I think it's nice that Robin offered her education services to get you up to speed on employment engagement platforms. I mean, seriously, they just-
Joel Cheesman: She's in marketing. It's her job.
Chad Sowash: It's charity.
Joel Cheesman: This isn't charity.
Chad Sowash: She's trying to help you with that tin cup. Throw some knowledge in that tin cup. Dude, last week they got 36.5 million. This week, Peak On, who is also an employment engagement platform, a la Dynamic Signal, they got 22 million this year.
Joel Cheesman: That's a lot for some Peak On pie.
Chad Sowash: You don't think it's a big thing and it's not genius, but I'm still standing by it. I think they're throwing cash at it because this is a very smart type of platform to be in.
Joel Cheesman: And they're stilling money to healthcare job boards, apparently.
Chad Sowash: That was cool.
Joel Cheesman: Nomad Health got 12 million this month or week. So good for them. Yeah, if you want to do a job board, do it in healthcare or tech, I guess. And you'll make some money. But don't launch that Toledo area job board because you're going to go no where with that.
Chad Sowash: That's probably not smart, no. Last but not least-
Joel Cheesman: Can we get to the show?
Chad Sowash: Jesus, man. You've got all these people that are out there listening to the Chad and Cheese and they might be listening on their desktop. But they can listen on Stitcher, Cast Box, Pocket Cast, Over Cast, and this week, Tune In just added the Chad and Cheese. You can go to iTunes, you can go to Google Play. And if you have a podcast player on your phone and you can't find Chad and Cheese, message us and we'll do everything that we can to get that pod feed up and running for you. Just let us know and listen more. Go back. Binge.
Joel Cheesman: Yup. And by the way if you listen on iTunes, Google Play, et cetera. Leave us a review. Let us know how we're doing. Hate on us, love on us. We don't care. Your feedback and engagement is our oxygen because Chad and I sit here at a microphone and hope that people are still listening. But getting that feedback is great for us. So take two minutes out of your day and tell us you hate us or love us, either way.
Chad Sowash: And if you have a beard and you hate on Joel, he's going to try to come shave it.
Joel Cheesman: Well, I know who doesn't need beard to be successful is Google, apparently, who is not taking this employment thing likely.
Chad Sowash: They are not. They are not at all. The trifecta of Google. You've got the Google For Jobs, the Google Jobs Discovery API, I still don't like that. And then you've got Google Hire, right?
Joel Cheesman: Yeah. Now you talked to these guys. Can't you get them to change the name of Google Cloud Job Search Discover API or whatever it's called? Get them to snap that up a little bit.
Chad Sowash: Well, to be quite frank, I don't think they're going to because from my understanding and they don't have an official date, but it's going to be coming out of beta soon. As you know as well as I do, Google keeps shit on beta forever. And these guys, they've been in beta for months so they're kicking ass and taking names.
Joel Cheesman: I think G-Mail's still in beta isn't it?
Chad Sowash: I think G-Mail's out of beta. I think, yeah.
Joel Cheesman: Oh, okay. Maybe not my version.
Chad Sowash: That being said, Google Hire just launched an add-on for G-Mail. You saw that right?
Joel Cheesman: I did. I did. Which, by the way, is quite a nice advantage that you can build your product into, oh, I don't know, G-Mail.
Chad Sowash: Yeah. Or Google Sheets. Or all the other rest of the Google suite of services that they have there. But I mean for small to medium sized businesses who get the majority of their applications via email, now Google Hire and G-Mail ... Google Hire has an add-on for G-Mail that allows the SMBs who are using Google Hire to easily drop candidates into their database directly from G-Mail. Then you can create a profile. You can invite the candidate to the interview. You can disposition the candidate. You can do all that from your G-Mail inbox, which is fricking cool.
Joel Cheesman: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Which, by the way, some good news on the Google Hire front from OnGig, who does a study of like a 1000 plus companies and their ATS preferences. So, Google Hire, although a small usage number, is currently now, according to OnGig a top 25 ATS, which frankly, considering all the ATS's out there is not too shabby considering it's less than a year old. It is also in the top ten for most used small businesses as an ATS, which I think is probably their target anyway. And they're also ... Well, they are by far, the fastest growing. Now I know they're coming from zero so that's not super impressive but some of these things, numbers and we're getting metrics around Google Hire, it's not too shabby. And launching some of these new features is only going to help propel it further up the charts.
Chad Sowash: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think some of this is suspect though because OnGig is partner very close to Google. So again, this is on the propaganda wagon. Because you're right, I mean, Experiencing, they show over 300% in client growth. Check my math. If you have one client and you add nine, which makes 10 clients, you're at like 900% growth versus if you have 301 clients and you add the same amount of clients, nine, it's only 3% growth. So I mean, come on guys. I get it and all this stuff is cool.
Joel Cheesman: Hooray. Let's hear a hooray for the Ohio Public School system.
Chad Sowash: Woo-hoo. I used easy numbers to be able to make sure that I could get those and it still might not be right. But yeah, I think Google Hire, with this add-on to G-Mail and then also just the ability to start using suite products in a very fluid manner is going to be really awesome for all the SMBs that are out there as they start to ... I don't know how long it's going to take them, but as they start to eye the enterprise market.
Joel Cheesman: And we're going to see Bogomil, the head of the snake ... I guess snake's a bad word. The head of the whole thing in Ireland this month. Maybe we'll try to corner him for a little interview.
Chad Sowash: Well, I actually talked to him yesterday and I said we're going to get him drunk so that we can try to get more out of him. He said he could drink you under the table. So there's no ... He's European. He can hold his liquor and he doesn't think you'll be able to. So hopefully you've been training for this because I know I have.
Joel Cheesman: My only question is if he's European is he going to put the murse on the ground before we start drinking or is he going to still have it over the shoulder. That's what I want to know.
Chad Sowash: The murse slash man purse. That was very nice, very nice.
Joel Cheesman: I just ticked off a whole continent. That was great. Okay. Let's see if we can piss off the North American contingent. Our next story unless you got something else you want to add on Google Hire?
Chad Sowash: No. Carry on.
Joel Cheesman: So Glassdoor, the brilliance of Joel Cheesman, your partner, predicted that it would be file IPO this year. And sure enough, Bloomberg has a story that they're projected to go IPO in the middle half of 2018. Your thoughts?
Chad Sowash: My thoughts ... It's like predicting the sun's going to come up tomorrow. That was a pretty easy prediction to make, right? I think it's going to happen. But you also pointed out in your story that you put out there that there are some bumps in the road that Glassdoor is going to have to think about. What were some of those bumps?
Joel Cheesman: I'll go on record to say I don't expect to purchase said stock. There are three main hurdles that I see. You can feel free to disagree or agree. Number one, I feel is that reviews are becoming commoditized. I feel like Indeed is creeping up on their numbers just by the pure traffic and volume of people that go to Indeed. I feel like they're smaller players, they're niche players that are making an impact. I feel like Google having reviews and Google For Job search results is sort of commoditizing reviews. I think LinkedIn is going to have reviews at some point. I think Google will probably have reviews at some point. I mean, a restaurant review no matter where you get it, is usually positive or not based on the food. Doesn't matter if it's a Yelp review or a Google Review or a Facebook review or a FourSquare review. So to me, this stuff is going to get commoditized and when Glassdoor loses reviews, they lose market share.
Joel Cheesman: The second reason is jobs are being commoditized. Most of the revenue of Glassdoor as far I know is all job board, job posting related. And we're seeing what's going on with that with Google For Jobs and commoditization there. I don't see that as a growth driver of the company. They don't have profiles of people like a LinkedIn or even an Indeed where you can at least search resumes. So to me, that's a real hurdle for them.
Joel Cheesman: Number three as we've talked about on this show briefly, they're in legal battles all the time. Companies want to know IP addresses and they want the company to reveal who said such and such. If there's precedent in the legal system of you are no longer anonymous on Glassdoor or these other anonymous sites, then what are you? You've lost trust with your users who only leave stuff because they think they're anonymous. There's so real land mines, in my opinion. And there's really a lot of commoditization in terms of what they provide. For those reasons, I think they're going to have a really hard time being public, although they've raised $200 some million and they have no choice but to go public and try to have a liquid event in that way. But to me it's sort of like when FitBit launched, it was like, "Oh shit. Apple Watch is coming." Or maybe Pandora with Spotify. They have to do it now and try to get as much as they can before the whole wall comes down and I think that's why they're going public. It's not a stock I would recommend or buy. I think it'll be a tough ride for them.
Chad Sowash: I agree. And as I said before, I think saying that they're going to go public is like saying the sun's going to come it. It's got to happen. It's got to happen.
Joel Cheesman: I'm sorry. Mr. Monster's going to come back, speaking about coming up from zero.
Chad Sowash: Which you said was laughable. So I'm making the hard predictions unlike you. But back to my assessment here. Yeah, if Glassdoor does try to add other services, I mean, reviews have to do with employee engagement. We just talked about two companies who just received 36.5 million and 22 million in for employment engagement or employee engagement types of platforms. Which could be turned around also into candidate engagement types of platforms. So if Glassdoor is smart, they'll understand what they have right now and they'll be able to pivot off of it. But we'll see. Again, we've seen companies like Monster and Career Builder not be able to pivot because they get hooked on the crack and they focus on that one piece and they think that's going to take them through and you know, it's not. It's all about being able to change and reinvent yourself, much like again, Netflix.
Joel Cheesman: Are you going to buy the stock?
Chad Sowash: Hell no.
Joel Cheesman: Do you think the stock will be worth more on day 365 than it is after day 1?
Chad Sowash: Again, I think they have way too many big hurdles in front of them. They're going to have to add more than what they have in their portfolio today to make it interesting for an investor like myself.
Joel Cheesman: Agreed. Well, it'll be fun to watch, either way. And speaking of fun-
Chad Sowash: Yes.
Joel Cheesman: Let's take a quick break. Let's hear from Sovren and when we come back, we'll talk about Real Match, Career Builder, and Monster. Sound good?
Chad Sowash: Pando.
Announcer: Google. Lever. Entelo. Monster. Jibe. What do these companies and hundreds of others have in common? They all use Sovren technology. Some use our software to help people find the perfect job while others use our technology to help companies find the perfect candidate. Sovren has been the global leader in recruitment intelligence software since 1996. And we can help improve your hiring process, too. We'd love to help you make a perfect match. Visit Sovren.com, S-O-V-R-E-N.com, for a free demo.
Joel Cheesman: You have to tell the folks what your comment was to me when I shared the Real Match rebrand story. Do you remember what it was? I was something like-
Chad Sowash: I can't.
Joel Cheesman: Yeah, real smart. Go from two works that people can spell and say to two words that not so much, so something like that.
Chad Sowash: Yeah.
Joel Cheesman: There's something in the water, right? Beyond is now Next, although there was some financial incentive to do that, that we found out later. So the story. Real Match, about a month ago, launches Pando IQ.
Chad Sowash: Right.
Joel Cheesman: Pando is apparently not the bear, the black and white bear that's really cute but can kill you. It's a life form of plants' roots that have survived millions of years. Apparently, Wikipedia says this thing is dying, so it might not be the best name for a new company or new brand. The idea was like it's the root of life and information, et cetera, and then IQ just because it was a progmmatic thing and smart. So now, Real Match is Pando Logic. We have PandoIQ, which was kind of strange because they launched Pando IQ before Pando Logic. So I'm assuming that Pando Logic will be the mothership for all these other PandoIQ, Pando AI, Pando Bot.
Chad Sowash: Pando Products.
Joel Cheesman: Pando job posts and what not. But yeah, it's hard to rebrand. I don't know if it was the right move. Real Match, people kind of knew. What are your thoughts?
Chad Sowash: So my first question is, do you think a dating site offered Real Match dollars so that they could make this. I mean, a la, Beyond.com and Next with Bed, Bath, and Beyond. It was kind of like an offer you can't refuse.
Joel Cheesman: I'm going to give you a little love for that because that was pretty good. Match.com might have backed up the Brinks truck to get real match. Who knows?
Chad Sowash: I don't know. But from my standpoint, Real Match, yes. It is a known entity in our industry but just on the vendor side of the house. And Real Match was incredibly smart because they focused on vendors and driving traffic and doing programmatic and those types of things to vendors because vendors understand that they need traffic and they will spend money for it, right, where talent acquisition won't. They just see all this mystical ... It was like SEO in the day. It was like magic. What's this magic I'm paying for? Vendors would, right? So they've been doing that for ten years. Now they're pivoting and they're providing that service now to talent acquisition with Pando IQ. So from my standpoint, you're a known entity. We know what you do. Now this talent acquisition side of the house might not, but who cares? It's still a brand that everybody knows. Why pivot and why try to rebrand? That to me is interesting to say the least.
Chad Sowash: I think from a products standpoint, I've gone through and talked to Terry and some of the team about product. It sounds incredibly smart. I think the pivot's smart. The data points that they have available to them, being around for a decade, is much different, I would say deeper and more breadth of knowledge and data than most of the other analytics platforms and programmatic platforms that are out there. It made just a hell of a lot of sense to do what they did. Other than the rebrand.
Joel Cheesman: Yeah. I don't think the name is any criticism on the product. I think that they're going to be a player in the programmatic ad game, which we both agree is the future of posting jobs. I tend to agree with you. It was a known entity. They're ten years old. I guess, but it's also an argument, if you're starting a business, dude, just name it something that means nothing. Like Indeed, Slack, Monster, Amazon. Then you can do whatever the hell you want, right? Don't pigeonhole yourself into Ohio Jobs if you want have job posting in New York. Just name it something crazy.
Joel Cheesman: Yeah, we like the product. We like Terry. We like him personally but this was sort of a head scratcher to me.
Chad Sowash: Well, here's what's going to have to happen. And first off, I don't know what's up with that new logo either. But here's what's going to have to happen. They're going to have to focus on targeting the same market that they've been in for ten years to be able to rebrand and then this new market with an entirely new name. So they're really going to have to do some great targeted marketing to talent acquisition and back into industry professionals to be able to get that new spin out. Much like Next has done. I think Next has done a pretty damn good job. So hopefully-
Joel Cheesman: Sponsor.
Chad Sowash: Yeah. That's a good idea.
Joel Cheesman: Clearly leveraging Chad and Cheese is the answer for Pando. So if they're listening, write a check and we'll take care of the whole branding thing for you.
Chad Sowash: Yeah, we can do that. Exclusive podcast.
Joel Cheesman: Speaking of brands that are old and crusty, let's move on to Career Builder and Monster, shall we?