Woody's Google for Jobs LOVE/HATE


We saw Mike present at a conference last year, and the dude's knowledge of the recruitment industry, Google for Jobs and even Amazon's foray into jobs is super intriguing.

As a result, we cover a wide variety of recruiting industry topics on this UNCOMMON EXCLUSIVE. Enjoy.

PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION sponsored by: Disability Solutions connects jobseekers with disabilities with employers who value diversity and inclusion.​

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Chad: Yep. Uncommon Automation helps recruiters cut their sourcing time by 75%.

Joel: How much coffee did you have today?

Chad: A lot.

Joel: Anyway, dude, 75%, that sounds like black magic or something.

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Joel: Seriously? Uncommon is the way to find qualified candidates, active or passive.

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Joel: Uncommon.co

Announcer: Hide your kids, lock the doors. You're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts. Complete with breaking news, brash opinion, and loads of snark, buckle up, boys and girls. It's time for the Chad and Cheese Podcast.

Joel: Say a prayer, boys and girls. We're going to try and get through this show unscathed. I'm Joel Cheesman of the Chad and Cheese Podcast.

Chad: And I'm Chad Sowash of the Chad and Cheese Podcast.

Joel: On today's show, we have another Uncommon exclusive, a special treat today. Saw this guy speak at the Jobg8 conference in Nashville. I was super impressed with him. He lives in Aspen, Colorado, he's got an undergrad degree from Georgetown, and has a masters from the University of Chicago. Other than that, he's a pretty decent guy. Welcome Michael Woodrow to the show.

Michael: Hey, guys. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.

Joel: Hold on, trying to get the applause button.

Chad: There it is.

Joel: There we go. I need a bigger screen to get all my soundbites.

Chad: That's what she said.

Joel: Michael, before we dive in, give the audience, who I'm guessing most do not know you personally, give us a pitch on you and what you do and why you're here.

Michael: Sure. I've got a business called Aspen Tech Labs and we actually just had our 10 year anniversary party this past Friday night, so we've been around for a little while. We work behind the scenes in the recruitment tech industry. The bulk of our business is jobs data management, so jobs scraping, and we move alot of job content around, from applicant tracking systems into advertising platforms like ZipRecruiter, Monster, and Broadbean. Lots of guys like that, we move job content around, we synchronize it, we keep things flowing between the ATSs and the advertising platforms, 'cause we also have our job word product called JobMount, and we have a cool product, hopefully we can talk a little bit about today, called Career Set Cloud, it's got a nice Google for jobs interface and a job alert system. It's a career centered product.

Joel: Yep, and JobMount and SpiderMount, a lot of our audience members in the vendors side will know that. JobMount's been around almost 10 years, right?

Michael: Yeah, it actually predated the business a little bit. My former partner, who retired recently, started doing one off job wars about 15 years ago, and then we launched Aspen Tech Labs 10 years ago, and JobMount was our first product. Yeah, JobMount and then yeah, a piece of our jobs data management business is called SpiderMount, that's the scraping business.

Joel: Yep. Let's dive in, one of the things you really wanted to talk about, and we can get to the industry stuff as we go on, but you were at Jobg8 in London and had quite a bit of takeaways from that. Can you sum up some of the highlights from that show?

Michael: I would say that first of all, one of the things that interesting is Jobg8, and there's a conference coming up in March called RecPlus, it seems like the community of attendees in Europe is, nothing against the U.S. people, but is a little more vibrant. It seems like the U.S. one is, sorry, you were there and I were there, so the usual suspects go to the U.S. ones. But in the European conferences, it's media firms, it's advertising firms, the StepStone guys are all over the place there, Russ Media, there's lots of activity from lots of different firms as opposed to the usual suspects. I think that's one thing that's interesting. It's pretty vibrant, it's really well-attended, 200 plus people are there. I think they do a good job.

Michael: One takeaway that I had that I thought was really interesting, I think most people took this away too, there's a Spanish firm called Job Today and they built their business from almost nothing in about four years. And they're kind of like a snag a job or retail or lower end employee site, and they do, almost exclusively, they do employer marketing using Facebook. You think about Facebook as being something for candidates really, not for employers, but they say SMBs are all over Facebook. They're concerned about their social presence, etc., and so they're there. You can really advertise to SMBs on Facebook, which people were just kind of blown away by that, and they showed some stats that were pretty cool.

Michael: And they said, and then for millennials-

Joel: Oh, god.

Michael: Which is their target audience, almost exclusively Instagram and Snapchat. That's where they attract their candidates. So that was a really interesting presentation, their growth ... He admitted they had some good funding and were able to spend some money where startups have trouble with that sometimes. But that was one takeaway I thought was pretty interesting.

Joel: And I know that AIM Group had a report that a job today is posted, a job in the U.S., for someone to hit up North America operations, so they're coming over here pretty quickly.

Michael: Yeah, that's interesting. They didn't talk about that at all, but it doesn't surprise me. It seems like they're well funded and they're moving. So that's something that certainly was interesting. But yeah, there was definitely a good vibe. Another thing that was one trend there was that job boards that are just providing jobs to candidates, the StepStone guys and some more of the recruiter marketing firms, they were telling me that they don't even think that those guys have a chance of surviving, that the sites really need to be a place for candidates to gather information and to interact and the jobs can be one part of what you're doing on the sites.

Michael: It sounds like the guys from StepStone particularly are spending a lot of focus on that. That might be because unemployment is so low. The other thing I learned there is unemployment in places like Hungary and Croatia and places like that are like 6%, 3%, 4%. I didn't know that. I thought those Eastern European countries were much higher, but lots of action in those places and people are being smart about recruiting, because if you have full employment, you have to be smarter about recruitment, right?

Chad: Yeah, we talked to Wolfgang down in New Orleans during TAtech over at StepStone, and those guys are an entirely different animal. They like to build everything instead of partner for things. So yeah, I could definitely see where they want to be able to grow out something that obviously is more than the job boards, more on the interaction and engagement side of the house. But all of that being said, let's get to the meat of this stuff, because you had a rant that you wanted to go on with regard to Google for Jobs, Google APIs, and Tarquin are those guys showing up to these conferences and really saying nothing. So give it to us.

Michael: I love the sponsors of these conferences. They allow me to speak or whatever, so I'm not bashing on the Jobg8 people or anything, but it just seems like this guy Tarquin, I forget what his last name is, Tarquin ...

Chad: Clark.

Michael: Clark from Google shows up at these conferences and he's not part of Google for Jobs. He claims to know nothing about it. He's part of the Google Cloud side, which is the Google API, Google Hire, that whole side of it. And so if you think about the audience, the audience is recruitment tech people and programmatic advertising and job boards and everyone, and people are seeing like, "What the hell do I care about Google Cloud and Google Hire, especially?" Maybe Google API, not really sure. I don't really see that in widespread use. But he comes up there and he talks about it and people get excited that he's there, and he doesn't say anything. And when he walks away, at least the people who seem to know what they're talking about are like, "Well, that was a waste of time."

Joel: It's a nice draw to have Google, Facebook, LinkedIn and whatnot at your conference.

Michael: Yeah, I think that is a draw to have those people there, but I think I really am advocating to stop having him come to these things. And I'm going to talk to the people at AIM and Louise and everyone, you should tell him that he can't come alone anymore. He's gotta bring somebody from Google for Jobs so they can talk about what's going on.

Chad: So that's like going to Indeed and having somebody speak from Indeed but they have no fucking clue what's going on in their search group. You realize that, right? So they've modeled that like Google, and Google and their search team is pretty much behind frosted glass and shit. So you can't see, you can't really have engagement with them, not to mention, I'm sure you've seen the anti-trust suits that have come out of Europe with regard to Google, right?

Michael: Yeah.