iCIMS Snuggles Microsoft


Another 3.2 million Americans filed for unemployment this week, bringing the total job loss to at least 33 million since the national lockdown, so how's your day going?

On this week's episode: - iCIMS gets cozy with Microsoft, - CareerBuilder wants to unload, - Monster throws a Hail Mary ...and robots are corona-safe, so bow down to your metallic overlords.

Enjoy and share our sponsors some TLC: Sovren, Canvas, and JobAdx.

PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION sponsored by:

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Intro: Hide your kids, lock the doors, you're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts. Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark. Buckle up boys and girls, it's time for The Chad and Cheese Podcast.

Joel: Another 3.2 million Americans filed for unemployment this week,

bringing the total job loss to at least 33 million since the corona lockdown.

Chad: Fuck.

Joel: How's your week going, Chad?

Chad: Aargh.

Joel: Hey kids, and welcome to another installment of The Chad and Cheese Podcast. I'm your co-host Joel, where's my bailout, Cheesman.

Chad: I'm Chad, lockdown and pissed off, Sowash.

Joel: And on this week's episode, CareerBuilder wants to unload. Monster throws a Hail Mary and robots are corona safe, so bow down to your metallic overlords while you listen to this spot from one of our cherished advertisers.

Sovren: Sovren parser is the most accurate resume and job order intake technology in the industry. The more accurate your data, the better decisions you can make. Find out more about our suite of products today by visiting sovren.com. That's S-O-V-R-E-N.com. We provide technology that thinks, communicates and collaborates like a human. Sovren, software so human, you'll want to take it to dinner.

Chad: Software so human you'll want it to come to work for you because it can't catch the coronavirus.

Joel: Eat the dinner with a mask and gloves and six feet of separation.

Chad: Yes. Luckily this last weekend here in the US or at least in Indiana, in

Columbus, Indiana, we can get out and run and walk the dogs and those types of things. And Julie actually got out and she completed her first half marathon.

SFX: Hell yeah.

Chad: So that's a big applause for that. She actually beat her stretch goal and ran home after that. I think she ran home faster because she knew that a Summer Shandy was waiting for her.

Joel: Are we sure she wasn't just running away from you because she's been in lockdown with you for too much?

Chad: She was probably running away from me for the most part, yeah. She's like, "How much time can I spend away from this asshole?"

Joel: Because it takes everything I have not to slit my wrists after every podcast with you at this point.

Chad: Oh, you're so sweet.

Joel: I know, I'm so sweet. It's a beautiful day out today. Again, four weeks and the world heals itself. It's nice. Shout-Out to Terry Baker for a myriad of things. One, sending us booze, which we always love.

Chad: Love it.

Joel: But we had a surprise guest appearance on the PandoLogic Zoom

meeting encompassing people from around the world. I'll name a few of the people notably aside from Terry, Brendan Macomber, who's a big fan, actually had an image of us as his background.

Chad: He's awesome.

Joel: Which mental issues. I'm going to call him the Israeli Arnold

Schwarzenegger.

Chad: Moshe.

Joel: Moshe. Yeah, right. That was fun. And then Erin Karchefsky, a Brown fan who actually had the Browns helmet as her logo, that was a lot of fun. And then shout-out to those guys at PandoLogic.

Chad: Yes. They had some really good questions and I think there are many unanswered questions from the group. It was a large group, but from the group. I think we might come back just to have a Q&A session, because they were asking some hard questions. I really enjoy that kind of shit.

Joel: Reaffirmation that you weren't hugged enough as a child. You have to continually Zoom bomb these corporate meetings. Shout-out to Death Matches. You're dropping these this week and into next week I believe.

Chad: Yeah, we've got Cloud RPO that's dropped. Optimal just dropped today. SonicJobs is going to be out soon. And then the grand champ JobSync. I mean it was a virtual event, but that was pretty fun, right?

Joel: I had a lot of fun. I mean we didn't have mimosas and bloody marys on demand, but we certainly had

Chad: We had beer.

Joel: We had the kegerator on hand for sure, so I'm not hating life too much.

Chad: And thanks to all of the contestants, TAtech and those wacky kids over at Pontoon Solutions.

Joel: No doubt. Craig.

Chad: After all of that time with Craig at Pontoon Solutions, can you actually say that you finally understand what RXO is?

Joel: I do understand what RXO is and I want a Grim Reaper, whatever the hell that thing was that Craig had branded RXO for my office if that's possible.

Chad: Yes, you should get one of those, but I still don't believe that you know what RXO means. Next shout-out goes to Jacob Dooley, founder of start-up ShopHire.co. He said the brand relevance podcast episode that we did from Banff was money, and I'm paraphrasing.

Joel: It was. Very cool. Very cool. Well, I'm excited this week or this coming week, we're going to be doing another round of Death Matches. These will air on the 19th, tatech.org, register today if you haven't already. Sponsored by Joveo, our new buddies, who have great taste in booze as well. Shout-out to ... I got a Four Roses Small Batch. You don't know quite yet what you're getting.

Chad: Picking mine up tomorrow, so really excited about that. These guys, they're actually creating custom Zoom backgrounds for us. Obviously getting us bourbon. KJ over at Joveo will be judging with us but I wonder, and here's a challenge, I wonder if he's going to have a cocktail in hand when he's doing it with us because we will.

Joel: That'll be interesting. We've seen the backgrounds and they are safe for our kids, so it's okay to watch during work. We know it's easy to put headphones on, but we want to make sure the visuals are safe for work

Chad: Exactly.

Joel: ... and we've made sure to do that.

Chad: And real quick to the contestants.

Joel: Absolutely.

Chad: We have Adam Chambers and Applichat.

Joel: Yep. Our favorite Hispanic Irishman.

Chad: That's right.

Joel: That'll be fun.

Chad: Yeah, that guy can salsa with the best of other Irish men. Scot Sessions and TalVista. Our favorite Russian, Aida Fazylova at XOR.ai. And I'm really excited that Bradley Cooper will be pitching for RexTxt. I can't believe Bradley Cooper is going to be on the show.

Joel: Yeah. He kind of looks a little Bradley ask actually, not really.

Chad: Oh, wait a minute. That's Clark, shit, Bradley Clark. Goddamn it. For fuck's sake.

Joel: It's okay. I'm encouraging them to come as Doug and Bob McKenzie from Strange Brew, an eighties comedy classic. And also my first exposure to Canada I think as a child.

Chad: Shout-out to Tara Repecci from Beamery for listening to the show and connecting on the socials, been seeing a lot of engagement from the people over at Beamery. Thanks for listening Tara and all your friends over at Beamery.

Joel: Cool. A shout-out to Erik Kostelnik. Some will remember Erik, we've interviewed him once or twice.

Chad: He's going Postal, right?

Joel: Founder of TextRecruit. He just launched his new company Postal.io this week. And their motto is offline is the new online. What they do, it's pretty interesting, they try to sort of create analytics around, I don't know, old school mailings, sending gifts, cards, postcards, whatever. When you're trying to cut through the clutter and people's inboxes are full with spam, sometimes getting a letter in the mail is the best marketing. Shout-out to him, best of luck. He got $9 million too, so he's got that going for him.

Chad: Yeah. And it's sales and marketing and there's a shit ton of money in those industries as we all know. So incredibly smart, which obviously we know Erik is. Big shout-out to a Satish Kumar, COO of GLIDER.ai. Thanks for listening buddy and connecting on the socials.

Joel: Shout-out to probably my favorite honey badgers of corporate America these days, Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos. I know you love both those guys. Elon sort of went off the rails this week, had a kid, he tweeted out, our stock is too high. The stock then went down 10%. He's brilliant, but he's a freak. And apparently they named the kid, he had a kid with pop star Grimes or alternative star Grimes. I don't know if she's Canadian, so a whole different country. He had an interesting week. And then Bezos, and we talked about Bezos taking over Amazon again. He's back, he's bad, he's rested, he's ready. I encourage you to open your mind to a new Bezos era at Amazon. He said, "Stockholders, I know you want me to announce that we have profits." But he said, "Sorry." They're putting like $4 billion to be a corona woke organization in terms of keeping employees safe, paying people more. I'm just keeping the door open for Jeff to take the reigns of this whole employment branding situation they have and making it better, improving it, and hopefully even proving to you that they can turn things around at Amazon for the employees.

Chad: Yeah. Fuck employment branding. Let's just bring humanity back to Amazon overall.

SFX: Hell yeah.

Chad: Yeah, good luck with that. Hopefully we can Jeff, that would be great. As he kicks humans out the door and he starts to throw robots in the warehouses. A big shout-out to our friends over at HiQ Labs. They have a response going to The Supreme Court soon. Just want to say, go get them guys. Obviously we had you on very early talking about this pretty much from day one. And if you are a start-up, if you're in this industry and you're not one of the 800 pound gorillas, you should do everything you can to support HiQ in this case. Because they, my opinion, they are representing the little guy that is focused on innovation and LinkedIn in this case, sons of bitches who were trying to squeeze all of those different start-ups and really suffocate them.

Joel: Apparently from the news, at least one of the judges is open to hearing the case. And I don't know the specifics of when they confirmed hearing a case or not, but the door is open, but we don't quite know yet whether it will be heard at The Supreme Court at this point, unless you know something I don't.

Chad: I do not. And I hope we take a little time and the rest of them look at it and see that this is just fucking travesty. Kick it out and let the boys do their work.

Joel: Yeah. And speaking of kicking it out, I'm going to give a shout-out to Wendy's. I don't know if you've heard Chad, but your meatless dreams may be coming true. Apparently one in five Wendy's now cannot provide hamburgers to its customers thanks to the corona deficits of workers and the supply chain. It's been a big week also for all the meatless solutions out there, Beyond Meat. All the ones I've not even had one of those. But yeah, your meatless dreams may be coming true, so shout-out to you as well.

Chad: I'm going to go on a quick rant and kind of hearken back to London last year during Recfest. I asked Torin Ellis when we were interviewing him, what can a couple of white guys do to help movement toward equality? And Torin said, "Simply speak up." When you see shit's wrong, say something about it. I'm going to take a minute just to do that. Ahmaud Arbery, 25 year old young man was jogging in a Brunswick neighborhood in Georgia on February 23rd, when a man and his son chased him down telling police later they thought he looked like a suspect in a series of recent break-ins in the area.

Chad: Let's break this down real quick. Two white guys hop in a truck to hunt down another human. Why? Because quote, they thought he looked like a suspect in a series of recent break-ins. Now this is in broad daylight. They loaded up the truck, complete with guns to face a young man who was jogging. And this happened in late February. And from my standpoint, I just heard about it the other day. The young man's dead, he was shot to death and nobody's in jail. As a white dude who is an ally and needs equality, not just for us but for our nation, for us to be sustainable as a people. This shit's got to stop.

Joel: Yeah. The real travesty of your rant and it's totally warranted is the two that did it are in jail, they're not in custody. Admittedly you and I don't know there needs to be a day in court, which hopefully will happen, but this shit is just ridiculous. People taking law into their own hands. There's obviously a race element to this that we'll probably find out at some point. We had something in Indiana I think that you shared recently in terms of

Chad: Yeah, last night.

Joel: Yeah, in terms of this shit. And speaking up is what we should do and we should do more of it. I know, I think I speak for both of us to say, we'll be more conscientious allies like Torin that are helping us to see these things. It's apparently a fairly old news story and you and I just sort of know about it. And I don't know if I would have heard about it had Torin not brought it up to us, so thanks to him. And we will continue to spread the gospel on that.

Chad: Well, in stark contrast to motherfuckers showing up in Michigan with assault weapons, right. None of them dead. None of them in jail, right. Stark contrast, a young man was jogging, okay. So yeah, we've got some things that we have to fix and we have to understand that there is an equality and a racism issue here in the US and that comes every single day to our offices as well. This is not just outside the office. All of those thoughts and feelings are also brought in with them. We just have to remind ourselves that we together have to get better and we can't stand for this shit. We have to speak up.

Joel: By the way in our binge worthy, our binge obsessed viewing habits. I want to recommend on Netflix, if you haven't watched When They See Us. It's about the the five young African American men in the eighties who were convicted of rape falsely. Super downer of a series, but very enlightening and eyeopening. And then sort of another one on the other side of the fence I guess is Waco. If you haven't watched Waco, it's pretty interesting. And neither of those series paint law enforcement in a very good picture. But still I think worth your time if you're looking for something to watch, Waco and When They See Us.

Chad: Yes. I'm going to take a deep breath.

Joel: Breathe Jerry, breathe.

Chad: And that's the serious part of the podcast. Let's go ahead and hit topics.

Joel: All right, fair enough. Let's hit the bell.

Chad: iCIMS snuggles up to Microsoft. Did you see this thing?

Joel: Whoa, I did see this. And so correct me if I'm wrong, but iCIMS has been Microsoft's ATS for a long time.

Chad: Yeah, they have.

Joel: They've sort of been dating for a while and it looks like they're starting to get a little freaky with each other in this news item.

Chad: Yeah. I mean, and we're talking about two entirely different sides of the same coin, right. When talent acquisition chooses to use your platform over their own, that's a little bit different than something like this because this is more on the biz dev side. But here's a quote from the press release. iCIMS announced a new partnership with Microsoft. iCIMS has joined the Microsoft partner ecosystem as a recruiting software provider to bring Dynamics 365 human resources users comprehensive talent acquisition solutions. This builds on the current partnership between iCIMS and LinkedIn Talent Solutions. And this is actually the GM of Dynamics talking, through this partnership, mutual users will be empowered to attract and hire people seamlessly between iCIMS and Microsoft. My big question to you, did you read the press release and did you see who was actually quoted from iCIMS on this one?

Joel: Ooh, I did not. I think it was the the head of tech, right?

Chad: No, it was Mike Wilczak. And remember what Mike does, he is the major dude around M&A. Do you think this is a perspective angling for acquisition?

Joel: Yes Chad, I do. Thanks for throwing the softball to me. LinkedIn has had their ATS for two years now, maybe going three since they've sort of like thrown it out to the market. Would any of us be surprised if two years later they said, you know what guys, eh, it's all right, maybe we should start getting cozy with an ATS player that really knows how to do this shit, insert iCIMS, insert partnership. You can write this script, you know how the story's going to end. But I got to think that if we're not reporting iCIMS acquired by Microsoft in a year, yeah, we're way wrong on this one, but this is probably going to happen quicker than we think.

Chad: Well, and I got to give props to Mike and iCIMS. I mean, Mike Wilczak and the M&A strategy for iCIMS themselves is incredibly smart. The marketplace, it's free. Some conditions that are in there, but still that they get an opportunity at that point to see that tech, to be able to partner up with that tech. But looking the other way for bigger entities like Microsoft to do the same thing with them, they're using their same dating game for the smaller organizations that they're looking to acquire. I feel like they're doing it the other way as well with organizations like Microsoft.

Joel: And don't forget iCIMS has a new CEO if I don't get this wrong, that's the former Marketo founder who knows a little bit about acquisitions and would probably be a nice piece of talent to add to the Microsoft team there. I think that probably is a nice incentive for them too.

Chad: Yeah, Steve Lucas, he is freshly minted as the CEO. But again as you'd said, was over at Marketo.

Joel: Acquisition baby, call it, slam dunk. That's one of the easiest predictions ever.

Chad: I've got a good feeling about this one. One thing I don't have a good feeling about is CareerBuilder.

Joel: No, not at all. Not at all. They were in the news this past week. They're looking to unload a whole lot of office space. If you're not familiar, CareerBuilder owns an entire headquarters in downtown Chicago. It's an 85,000 square foot office on LaSalle street, which actually overlooks whatever river runs through Chicago. I'm sure someone knows who's listening, but I don't. They're looking to sublet basically all of it. The sublet availability flyer, the promo for it is defined as long-term. CareerBuilder is apparently looking to sublet this place and sublet it for a very long time.

Chad: Yeah. Mid last month they started furlough slash layoffs, and we predicted that this was going to be an atrophy, and this is part of it and I just think the business is going to atrophy much faster than what we possibly thought would happen. And the river that runs through Chicago is the Chicago River

Joel: Sorry, I was thinking the Cuyahoga, but that's a totally different city.

Chad: The Chattahoochee, no, that's not it.

Joel: The Nile is not just a river.

Chad: It's something we live in every day. Then we jumped from CareerBuilder to Monster and they are looking at a Hail Mary with nursing.

Joel: Monster, although trials and tribulations are less public, I guess. They're obviously going through tough times. In accordance to that, they're launching monster.com/nurses, which probably existed before this, but they're highlighting it now. In recognition of, I guess it's National Nurses Week this week, so shoutout to all the nurses as well. But they're launching this site hoping that they can sort of piggyback on the whole healthcare phenomenon, hiring nurses. They're also offering free, let me verify this, but I think some of the nursing job postings are free or really discounted.

Chad: Yes. I think some of the actual healthcare categorized jobs. The interesting thing for me is Monster, we've seen Monster over the years do this and not do it incredibly well, where they've gone incredibly niche and then right back out to general, right. They just got rid of a site that was a trucking site, remember the trucking technology. So they, it's

Joel: Smart move that was.

Chad: Yeah. I mean it's just doesn't feel go figure like they know what they're doing, like they have any real discipline for any of this. And I understand that you have to pivot, you have to angle, especially in these types of situations. But my question is, other than just partitioning off your database for categorized healthcare workers and then providing healthcare jobs for free, what are you bringing to us? Because none of that's innovative, none of it. What do you bring into it? And I just don't see it with this, so thanks but no thanks.

Joel: Yeah. It's, hey, we have nursing jobs, let's create a landing page saying we're all about nurses and blah, blah, blah, and then give our sales team some new ammunition to go out to healthcare companies and hospitals, et cetera, and say, "Hey, we have this new nursing channel. You need to buy into it." When there's really nothing unique, there's no content really that's unique dedicated to nurses. There's no social media or networking technology or platform where nurses can connect with each other, learn stuff. There's no podcast for nurses sponsored by Monster to help people be better nurses. It's just setting up shop cardboard, a storefront to try to get more customers into something that isn't really even there. An old tactic that doesn't work.

Chad: Yeah. Well, and it's something that everybody can see through, it's smoke and mirrors, right? If there's an actual initiative, then let's talk about the initiative. What does it do? What's innovative? There's nothing innovative here. But what I do think is smart and is something that very focused and disciplined organizations can pull off is a niche website, right? I think this is, and we saw a ... you actually shared an article that really was focused on the rise of niche sites.

Joel: This is Andreessen Horowitz, is a pretty famous well known VC firm in the Valley. Mark Andreessen, famous for Netscape browser and creating sort of the modern internet. They had a really interesting blog post on their corporate site recently that talked about the need and the value of niche job sites and that they should be being built immediately. Or like entrepreneurs should be looking at building these niche sites immediately. And the primary premise is to say, look, in normal economies sites are built, the Craigslist, the LinkedIns, the Indeeds, they're built for a 3% to 6% unemployment rate, right? We're looking at 30% to 40% unemployment rates. The scale at which people need to be employed, the scale at which a restaurant needs waiters and cooks or really any business that needs specific talent or specialized professionals really can accomplish what they need to accomplish on general type sites.

Joel: Niche sites need to be created, which is sort of a, let's go back to the future moment because niche sites used to be everywhere, and every Tom, Dick and Harry and their mother was creating local niche sites, industry niche sites, regional niche sites, and they were all over the place and they existed because Google helped drive traffic to them when people searched Toledo jobs or nursing jobs. And a lot of those niche sites are gone for a variety of reasons. But I don't really see it being realistic that a bunch of niche sites are going to start popping up the way Andreessen Horowitz sort of hopes it will or thinks it will.

Chad: I agree. I think we've been talking about Alexander Mann Solutions hourly product that just was pushed out. I think being able to really be hyper-focused in a specific area, in this case hourly workers, and most of those essential workers that are out there today are hourly workers. But also you have Indeed with sift that's out there that we really haven't seen them do anything with. They could really find a niche and if they focused and poured money into something like that, it will work with what they're already doing with Indeed as it is. It's just the process methodology of being able to provide an experience for a specified type of worker much like hourly does. I think there's great opportunity that is out there. Much like you, I don't think it is related to just popping up new websites for hospitality and restaurant and all these other types of niches. I don't think that's the answer.

Joel: Yeah. Thinking to the future here, the minute they create a vaccine for this thing, the world and the economy is going to go bonkers. It's going to be such a flood of let's get back to where it is, but are people really going to be out and about? To what degree? How widely available is the vaccine? How are they getting it to people? Shit's going to be bonkers for like six months when they find a vaccine for this thing. And no one knows when that is. But when the flood of hiring happens, none of us really know what that's going to look like.

Chad: Well, that's why we have to be ready now. And if you're in talent acquisition and you're not focusing on strategy for when that happens, then you don't deserve to have your job. I mean you shouldn't be in your job. You should be focusing on not just ensuring that your people are taken care of now, but you should have task forces or teams that are put together. You should have vendors working on this shit.

Joel: Sure.

Chad: This is the time when you need to refocus on blowing up your process and focusing on new experiences so that when everything, again, we were ill prepared for what's happening now. Do not, I repeat, do not be ill prepared when the light switches back on.

Joel: Easier said than done for most organizations, but you're exactly right. Which is where automation might be coming into play, which I think we're talking about after a quick word from JobAdX.

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Chad: This is what I'd like to call the Jeff Bezos segment because his mouth is just watering thinking about robots.

Joel: You can bet there are a whole lot of boardrooms talking about how do we restart with automation, robotics, et cetera. It's no shock that we have a whole segment now of sort of robots and how they're infiltrating our world and will continue to do so.

Chad: Yes. The first story out of Crunchbase is Covariant. They just landed 40 million in Series B. They have a total of about 62 million. And quote from Crunchbase, within all industries, companies are under pressure to deliver good efficiencies, fast and reliable and especially amid the COVID-19 pandemic in a way that keeps workers safe. Covariant co-founder and CEO, Peter Chen said, "Automation is the key to meeting that challenge." I really feel like we're going to see the Jeff Bezos's, we're going to see other organizations that are going to say, "Hey, we have to get back to work. We can't do that with human beings in these types of positions. We really need to start putting money into automation."

Joel: Yeah. When he says keep workers safe, he means keep workers unemployed. I think that's a big difference in what he's trying to say there. But what's cool about this company I guess and a little bit scary is they're basically teaching robots to be self aware or at least that's the goal. This is getting into like fucking Terminator Skynet kind of shit at this company. And now they have 40 million more dollars to make that happen, so congratulations.

Chad: I mean, it's kind of the premise between machine learning and then getting into deep learning, right? They started out in warehouses and they're looking to expand the technology into a bunch of different areas. And I think that this is going to be a market where they see where problems are happening. There are essential workers who are getting sick, like the meat packing industry for goodness sakes. There are people dying left and right in some of those packing facilities and you have to think of the food. You have a bunch of sick people that are there that shouldn't be there in the first place because they should be taken care of, but they're also handling food. How do you fix that? Well, you put in robots.

Joel: They have a presidential decree that they have to stay open, I tell you.

Chad: Yeah, what a fucking idiot.

Joel: Oh, that's good stuff. By the way, did you see the Boston Dynamics? They have that robot that looks like a dog, it's new and improved now, I just saw this story today or yesterday. I mean it runs super fast. It jumps super high. I mean it's scary as shit. It walks upstairs. It's like a slinky now. I mean this thing is ridiculous. When you think about delivering packages, I think we thought a lot about it being sort of this wheeled little tank thing that brings packages. I could see this dog like Boston robotics thing run around neighborhoods delivering packages to people.

Chad: Watch the Black Mirror series where they have those robot dogs and it's kind of scary.

Joel: Oh, really? Do they deliver packages.

Chad: If dead bodies are packages, yes. One thing that won't deliver dead bodies though is 10 guy.

Joel: 10 guy.

Chad: There was this article on mynewsdesk.com. Swedish municipality performs corona safe robot recruitments, and this is in the healthcare space. This is interesting.

Joel: They have a whole new selling angle to go into really any company that has workers in close proximity to each other or really anyone that wants to provide a safe virus free interview environment. If this doesn't make robotic interviewing happen, nothing will. Because this is such a shot in the arm to give them a boost, this company.

Chad: And we've talked about this before, just even before the virus, it just makes good fucking sense. You could have literally a team of 10 guy robots that are sitting in rooms and boom, the people who have to come in where the healthcare workers doesn't matter, if it's one of those where they are doing typically the onsite interviews, boom, right into a room with 10 guy. We always hear about people saying, "Yeah, well, it seems so inhuman." You know what I don't like? I don't like fucking interviews. And that's being a hiring manager. You know what I don't like as a job seeker? I don't like fucking interviews, because you feel like, one, you're judging somebody on one side or you're being judged. You have this thing and it's like, "Oh, this is kind of cool." I mean there's this cool factor that you just can't get beyond.

Joel: They now have an embarrassing free way to go to the buyers and say, "We need to do this because it keeps our current workplace safe and it keeps people coming in safe. And that's a reason to at least try this thing."

Chad: And it just made sense before all of this shit.

Joel: Huge for 10 guy.

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Chad: Oh, can't wait to get back in the office, not so much.

Joel: It's been kind of a bummer episode. I thought I was going to be a little livelier, but yeah, it's been kind of a downer. Except for 10 guy, the rise of 10 guy baby, here we come.

Chad: The rise of 10 guy.

Joel: Story on the Wall Street Journal this week talking about, welcome back to the office, your every move is being watched. And for a long time workers have been watched by cameras. They have to key card into every door. Good heavens, we've talked about microchips going into workers voluntarily.

Chad: Haptic bracelets.

Joel: Yeah, haptic bracelets. And now Ford is testing, the wristband buzzes if you're within six feet of somebody. This according to the story is the world of work as we know it going forward. They talk about infrared cameras, taking your temperature, the temperature of everyone in the office, dictating through technology who's hot before they even come in the office. Distancing from people, who has the dirty keyboard, cleaning facilities from viruses and whatever during the work day. We're going to be watched to a level that I think even Orwell would have been shocked by as he wrote 1984.

Chad: Yeah. This is Enemy of the State shit. I think I've said this on several podcasts. If you haven't watched it yet, go look for the movie. It's got Will Smith in it, Enemy of the State. CCTVs, listening devices. You have a listening device with you all the time, it's called your mobile phone. Not to mention like Fitbits, the Apple watch. I mean, we have all these wearables, we have all these electronics that are with us. But then think about it as going back into a building possibly, that they enhance. That overall is interesting. One thing that I would like to see is, remember the cleaning robot that we talked about a few episodes ago that they're using in hospitals. I think for that organization the sky's the limit. Every company like Amazon, you have about 50 of those in your fucking warehouse, just running the entire time, UVing the shit out of stuff, on airplanes, those types of things. That's good technology. This is more of the James Bond, we're going to watch you every single second of the day technology.

Joel: Yeah. If you come in for a meeting, we're taking your temp, we're looking at your infrared shit. You can't come in because you're viewed as a risk for coming in.

Chad: Sentiment analysis on Slack.

Joel: Yeah. That's been going on for a little bit as well. What's interesting to me is we always take these sort of historic disasters and we use it for a reason to move forward a technology normally would not be able to progress, right? When 9/11 happened, cameras everywhere, surveillance everywhere, that went on to hyper drive. When in normal times people would have freaked the fuck out.

Chad: And we called it the Patriot Act.

Joel: Yeah, the Patriot Act and Terrorism. And so this is like a new reason to make it okay because we're making our employees safe and we're ... but are there devious activities that could go on? Sure. This a little bit of a rant, you can cut it out in editing if you want, but I think it's interesting to look at, historically huge things happen and then change happens and it's usually positive change. Like World War I happened, we had Women's suffrage, right? World war II happened, we had the civil rights movement. I'm really curious to see if this healthcare crisis generates a more universal healthcare system in the US. It'll take a long time, but I'm just sort of thinking loud like, if there's one change that would be really I think beneficial to this country and this world is more, at least if not universal healthcare, more money to the CDC, more money to WHO and other organizations that help keep us safe on a global level and on a national level. And with that, we out.

Chad: We out.

Chester: Thank you for listening to podcast with Chad and Cheese. Brilliant. They talk about recruiting, they talk about technology, but most of all they talk about nothing. Anyhoo, be sure to subscribe today on iTunes, Spotify, Google Play or wherever you listen to your podcasts. We out.

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