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2022's Top 3

The year is almost over, so the boys are taking a second to nurse their holiday hangovers and reminisce about their favorite episodes from 2022. Included are shows featuring everything from Indeed to witchcraft to TikTok to killing Madonna and much, much more.


INTRO (1s):

Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HR’s most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right where it hurts! Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.

Joel (25s):

Oh, yeah. Christmas is over and business is business. Dilute the son of a bitch. Hi kids. You're listening to the Chad and Cheese podcast. This is your co-host, Joel "Gecko" Cheesman.

Chad (38s):

ThIs is Chad "Auld lang syne" Sowash.

Joel (41s):

On this episode, we recover from our holiday hangover and review our top three podcasts from 2022. Grab the Tylenol and join us for some recovery time. Won't you? Let's do this.

Chad (56s):

So the Chad and Cheese holiday cards are out. Is that what I'm saying? I'm seeing them all over social media.

Joel (1m 4s):

Yes. The US fans.

Chad (1m 6s):


Joel (1m 7s):

Will be the first and have those are trickling in. So the social media is great. They'll get a postcard with our ugly mugs, and a little message from us on there. The international fans will hopefully get something at some point. Sending mail internationally is interesting. There is no - that I can find, and please hit me up if you do know of a, like direct mail, do-it-yourself card service that we'll send everywhere in Europe on one platform. Canada. Australia, we got a lot of fans, a lot of places.

Chad (1m 37s):

Oh, they're all over.

Joel (1m 37s):

I had to go to Walgreens, get it printed up, get the envelope, had to get the international stamps from the post office. I had to go old school. My 13 year old daughter who has great penmanship, helped me out with some of 'em. So international fans don't get upset, don't get sad. If it doesn't come or hasn't come yet. By Valentine's Day, it might show up. Who knows?

Chad (1m 59s):


Joel (1m 59s):

Or might come back to me or end up somewhere in the Antarctic somewhere. But yeah, it's great. It's fun that we do that, right? I mean.

Chad (2m 7s):

Yes, yes.

Joel (2m 8s):

Major companies with marketing teams don't do that stuff, right?

Chad (2m 11s):


Joel (2m 11s):

They just send the email. Don't put any heart into it at all. Like, we're just two dudes doing our thing. And I think that the fact that we do that is pretty cool.

Chad (2m 18s):

That's right.

Joel (2m 19s):

And I think we've actually done it since year one or year one or two.

Chad (2m 22s):

Well, and I have to say next year, I put the ugly sweater picture back out there.

Joel (2m 27s):


Chad (2m 28s):

And it had a lot of traction. As a matter of fact had a lot of people that actually said that they would wear the ugly sweater to their holiday parties. So we might have to take a look at doing ugly sweaters next year.

Joel (2m 46s):

If we get to fans wearing the ugly sweater, the next step is like rabbits boiling in a pot in our kitchen. Like we we're getting into Glen Close territory with our fans. And maybe, maybe we should pump the brakes a little bit on too much Chad and Cheese stuff.

Chad (3m 2s):

There is no such thing. You watch your mouth.

Joel (3m 4s):

Stickers on laptops T-shirts. You know, it's, getting crazy.

Chad (3m 8s):

You watch your mouth.

Joel (3m 8s):

It's getting crazy.

Chad (3m 9s):

Yeah. You watch "Shut your mouth"

sfx (3m 12s):

60% of the time. It works every time.

Joel (3m 15s):

All right. So we're, I guess we're gonna have a a year end shoutout?

Chad (3m 19s):


Joel (3m 19s):

Just kind of a culmination of who we love. That's right.

Chad (3m 22s):

Oh yeah.

Joel (3m 22s):

And whatnot. I'll, let you go first.

Chad (3m 24s):

Well, I love all of you for listening. And I wanted to be able to share this intel that we've got from our megaphone platform. So here are the 2022 podcasts in review for Chad and Cheese.

Joel (3m 39s):

Do you want me to give us some background music for this?

sfx (3m 40s):

insert sexy music here.

Joel (3m 41s):

Here we go. Give us some.

Chad (3m 46s):

Total podcast listenership up 23%.

Joel (3m 49s):


Chad (3m 49s):

80% of our listeners use Apple Podcasts.

Joel (3m 53s):


Chad (3m 54s):

More than 60% increase in listens on Spotify. And last but not least, the foreign podcasts. Those things are creepy as shit, but they're cool as shit as well. Veritone, our friends over there, they Yes, they cloned our voices. It's ai. We did French, German, Spanish, and Portuguese. We're putting them out weekly. Our weekly shows, they're being transformed into those native tongues.

Joel (4m 22s):


Chad (4m 22s):

Sounds exactly like us. It's creepy. It's cool. And we couldn't do this without all of you and your support out there. So thank you so much. And can't wait till we can do this again in 2023.

Joel (4m 35s):

The fans for sure get standing ovation from us. And we also couldn't do this, Chad, without out sponsors!

Chad (4m 43s):

Yes. Oh yes.

Joel (4m 43s):

Trust me, kids, if it don't make money, it don't make sense. And without our sponsors, we aren't doing this show. So don't fast forward through the ads. Take some time. Listen, we exist because of them and they are fantastic.

Chad (4m 60s):


Joel (5m 0s):

Our retention rate for sponsors, is crazy!

Chad (5m 3s):

Knock on wood,

Joel (5m 4s):

Like, if, if we were a Fortune 500 company, we would be really impressive. We're obviously not.

Chad (5m 9s):


Joel (5m 9s):

But our sponsors, some have been with us since year one that are still

Chad (5m 14s):


Joel (5m 14s):

Supporting the show, still loving us even through acquisitions, you know, brand changes. I mean, they stick with us and we can't do this without them. So a big, a big shout out to our sponsors. Hell yeah. All right, Chad, let's get to, we got three favorite episodes each. We did not cross the streams. There's no duplication. So, give us your first must listen to show from 2022.

Chad (5m 40s):

Well, first and foremost, I wanna know how you picked your top three, because I picked mine different this year than I did last year. There's no right or wrong way of doing it. I mean, this is our top pick. So, you know, last year I picked interviews only, we do about 35 to 40 interviews a year. This year I focused on the numbers, what our listeners actually was telling me what they thought the best episodes were. So I picked one of our weekly show, one of our European show, and one of our cult brand show with, with Julie Calli, and then obviously European with, with Lieven. That was my methodology, let's say this year.

Chad (6m 22s):

How did you come up with yours?

Joel (6m 24s):

Yeah. You and I have an interesting chemistry and anyone who listens to the show for any period of time will know that, you know, obviously some of our passions and what we are interested in, cross a lot. Yeah. But there's certain things that you really are passionate about, certain things I'm passionate about, certain things that are interesting to you and me. And so, it's an interesting chemistry, if you will. So I simply just go down and go, what do I remember? What stood out to me? What was interesting? Because you're the one who edits these shows. So you, you know, these shows more intimately than I do because you've listened to them multiple times. I don't think I've listened to a show of ours since about 2017. So, you know, these shows better than I do.

Joel (7m 5s):

So I just go through and say, what piqued my interest? What do I remember, what like, caught my eye? And then I go with those. So there's really no rhyme or reason. I have one interview with an author.

Chad (7m 17s):


Joel (7m 17s):

I have one with a CEO and I have one kind of combo show that sort of went together really well as my picks.

Chad (7m 24s):

Okay. Okay. Well, I'm gonna roll into my first one. It's from the Chad and Cheese Does Europe. And this is back, back on June 8th of this year.

Joel (7m 36s):


Chad (7m 36s):

It was entitled Indeed versus LinkedIn Battle for Europe. This was, obviously a Chad and Cheese Does Europe podcast that had German unions smacking Elon and Tesla's back to the office for 40 hours a week edict smacked that around. Levin's thoughts on Bain Capital investments and House of HR which was obviously huge. Florence the nursing shift app got funding and Lieven and I had a chance to talk about nursing and dig deeper into, you know, his thoughts on healthcare and obviously staffing within Europe and healthcare.

Chad (8m 17s):

But the coup de gras my friend of this episode was the Intelligence Groups 162 page survey that breaks down the job board market in Europe, country by country. This report also included labor force data, aging data, part-time contract workforce composition, labor costs, income inequality. And your favorite Joel, the Big Mac index.

Joel (8m 49s):

Ooh, the Big Mac index. Very nice.

Chad (8m 52s):

The report demonstrated that Indeed is gaining steam and becoming the number one job board in Europe, but they are only number one in six of the 40 plus market. So for me, this report continues to demonstrate just how hard it is to crack Europe as a vendor.

Joel (9m 13s):

Europe's tough.

sfx (9m 13s):

Europe has a bunch of countries in it.

Joel (9m 15s):

And I think I speak for both of us when I say the European show has been fantastically rewarding.

Chad (9m 22s):


Joel (9m 23s):

Not only from learning more about the continent and its news as it relates to our industry, but the people of Europe and engaging with them and getting to know them and creating relationships has been fantastic.

Chad (9m 38s):

Well, I remember our first foray into this, which was RecFest 2019, right when we really came to Europe, started really focusing on European tech, the differences between, you know, US and UK and Europe overall. I mean, that really opened our eyes. So when we got a chance to actually do the, the show with Lieven, I was pretty excited about that.

Joel (9m 60s):

Yep, yep. And by the way, the iCIMS acquisition of CandidateID almost made my top list for 2022.

sfx (10m 8s):

Welcome to all things Scottish. Our slogan is, if it's no Scottish, it's crap.

Chad (10m 14s):

You still gave him a golf clap. That's all I gotta say.

Joel (10m 17s):

Would you guys let that go? For God's sakes? Would you let it go? I don't think Adam is hurt anymore, by the way. All right, let's get to my first show. So one of the shows that we did was Dan Pink back in the day. Oh yeah. And sometimes we get guests on that are just interesting, energetic, they have a view of the world that's unique, that's sort of outside of recruitment. Somehow we're able to bring them in and tell stories about how it relates to what we do. And for me, right. Robert Kerbeck, author of Ruse Lying the American Dream from Hollywood to Wall Street was just fascinating.

Joel (10m 57s):

Yes. It was outside the box of what we normally talk about. Just a little bit about the episode. Robert eighties actor, he was in New York to support himself. He was waiting tables. Apprenticeship, he became a corporate spy. So he would go and figure out what companies were doing in terms of recruitment, corporate secrets. Anyway, I'm not doing it justice, you have to go check this episode out. My favorite part was, we asked him three picks of who do you marry, who do you fuck, and who do you kill? And the one I remember was, is he would kill Madonna. So that gives you an idea.

Joel (11m 39s):

Talks about his sexual adventures of the eighties. He hung out with OJ.

Chad (11m 44s):


Joel (11m 44s):

George Clooney.

Chad (11m 44s):

Oh, great stories, great stories.

Joel (11m 46s):

Paul Newman. Yeah. Just goes on and on.

Chad (11m 48s):

His wife worked for Madonna.

Joel (11m 50s):


Chad (11m 51s):

His wife worked for Madonna. Yeah. I mean, it's just like so awesome.

Joel (11m 56s):

Madonna wouldn't let you look at her. The part of the book. So there's a description of the book. It says Kerbeck shares the lies he told, the celebrities he screwed, and those who screwed him, the cons he ran and the money he made and lost along the way. If that doesn't get your attention to go check out that episode, I don't know what will, but that was one of my favorite episodes from 2022.

Chad (12m 18s):

I'm with you there. I'm with you there.

Joel (12m 21s):

All right. When we get back, we'll talk about some more of our favorite episodes.

Chad (12m 28s):

All right, Chad, give us fave number two. All right. My top episode. This next one comes from weekly show that we dropped on September 2nd, and it's entitled Smart Recruiters Times Are Changing. On this episode, we were both surprised to hear that first and foremost YouTube is the number one podcast platform. I think that that surprised us both. And then we jumped right into CEOs being on the clock. Jerome stepped down as the CEO at Smart Recruiters while the CFO, Jeremy Johnson stepped in as the interim CEO.

Chad (13m 11s):

Also during that episode, Snagajob downsized and it seemed like CEO Machu Stevenson's shot clock was running out. Then right on cue this week, Snagajob appoints a new CEO, Keith Forshew, who was Snag's Chief Product Officer. So Snag was signaling back in September, but they kept the CEO in place without the need for a clunky move to an interim CEO like Smart Recruiters. What the hell happened at Smart Recruiters that they needed to actually kick the CEO to the curb like that?

Joel (13m 45s):


Chad (13m 45s):

Clients and shareholders want finesse. They want the air of control. And what they don't want is a dramatic move that happened months ago without a CEO in a seat. So, back to Snag real quick. I believe much like snag lost its way years ago, Machu was a guy who couldn't write the ship fast enough. I mean, it was, to be quite frank, Snag to me is a sinking ship.

Joel (14m 15s):


Chad (14m 15s):

And he just couldn't keep it afloat. But why hasn't Snag and ZipRecruiter been knocking the cover off the ball? Those are, you know, those are the questions I have.

Joel (14m 25s):

And good questions they are. And maybe we'll answer them in 2023.

Chad (14m 28s):

Let's hope.

Joel (14m 29s):

But for now, let's move to my second fave of the year. So this is a little bit of, I'm gonna cheat a little bit. I'm gonna cheat a little, but I'm gonna put two episodes into one. But I think they compliment each other so well that, that you have to put 'em together. So.

Chad (14m 42s):

I appreciate it.

Joel (14m 43s):

Yeah. We talk a lot about Indeed on this fucking show, partly because people love it. When we talk about Indeed like the numbers are there that you guys love listening about or hearing about Indeed. So one of the benefits that we have on this, this show is that we are old and we've been through 20 plus years in this industry, which means we know some people.

Chad (15m 1s):

Stop calling me old fucker. Jesus.

Joel (15m 3s):

We have some context. Like, we were there, right? Like yes, we were at Woodstock so we can talk about it. And we know the people that were there with us. And the first one comes in, we interviewed Tim Dineen, who was, I don't know, let's call him the SEO guy at Indeed, which if you know about Indeed the thing was built on Google, like the thing was built on search. So if you want to point to someone who was integral in the success of Indeed, it was Tim Dineen who went on to found Recruitix, and we talked to him for a good hour I think, about the history of Indeed starting it up, you know, Craigslist banning them from scraping the site.

Joel (15m 44s):

Fear of, you know, Monster at the time, laughing at companies that do Superbowl ads, which is amusing because Indeed does so many ads today. But it really gives you, if you work in Indeed or interested in or like the industry, it's such a great historical perspective of how Indeed became the 800 pound gorilla in our space. And my tie in with that episode is our talk with Jim Durbin, the Self-professed Indeed whisperer.

Chad (16m 12s):ti

Indeed Whisperer.

Joel (16m 13s):

Yes, right? So, so he wanted to come on and he deals with them intimately with through customers and his own stuff and advertising and what, so we brought Jim on the show to talk about what's going on at Indeed. What are you seeing? What's your predictions for the future? Where are they going? What are they doing? And I think he helped frame from his perspective what's going on in Indeed. So we talk a lot about Indeed on the show. To me, these are the two episodes that really sort of tie in together really well and bring the Indeed news commentary, editorial opinion together on those two shows.

Joel (16m 54s):

If you're interested in Indeed, you gotta listen to those two episodes.

Chad (16m 59s):

Yes, great shows, great shows. And, I can't tell you how many people actually reached out after and said, thanks for bringing those guys on.

Joel (17m 9s):

Yep. No doubt. Let's take a quick break and we'll get to our final faves when we return. All right, Chad, let's get your final fave from 2022.

Chad (17m 25s):

Okay, my last pick for top episodes for 2022 is from our Cult Brand series dropped on October 3rd, which was entitled TikTok Is Glassdoor Gone Wild. The first topic on this show is about something that I believe is probably the biggest conversation in our space right now, and it's pay equity. In this episode, we start off talking about salary transparency, the actual article that Julie Calli wrote on, and it quickly bleeds into wage equity. These are two different yet connected topics. Both of these topics will not go away no matter how badly employers want it to go away, especially with new New York City and California joining Colorado and dropping the laws that mandate salaries on jobs.

Chad (18m 15s):

Julie and I gotten into a little bit of a spat.

Joel (18m 18s):


Chad (18m 18s):

On how, how hard or easy it is for hiring companies to make this happen. But no matter what, it's a hot topic. Awesome conversation, and the debate's definitely not going away. Then we talk about TikTok.

Joel (18m 34s):


Chad (18m 35s):

We talk about TikTok just about as much as we talk about OnlyFans, it's all the rage. And TikTok is, every time a new platform comes, a new technology, something that is all the rage. The first thing a company asks is, how do I get my jobs on that, on TikTok or what have you? They just don't understand it. So this episode digs into what TikTok can actually help a company do not about posting jobs and doing the 1990s bullshit that we did back in the day, but actually evolving and learning how to use these new platforms.

Chad (19m 16s):

So really cool. I loved listening to it again today.

Joel (19m 21s):

Yeah, nice. So the question is, does TikTok get banned in 2023? And we stop talking about it because no one can use it in the free world, if you will.

Chad (19m 32s):

I'd say no.

Joel (19m 33s):

All right. Let's get to my, my final ooh favorite episode. That's right. Let's build the sucker up. All right, let's talk about assessments. Let start that over.

Chad (19m 41s):

I thought, I thought you were gonna say incest. I'm like, no, I we're not, we're not talking about incest on this show, Joel. Yeah.

Joel (19m 48s):

All right. So, I'd say a few times a year we have a guest that you book, and it's about something that frankly, when I think about assessments,

sfx (19m 58s):

60% of the time, it works every time.

Joel (20m 2s):

And, you know, I was like, okay, let's do this thing. And we had Caitlin MacGregor.

Chad (20m 11s):


Joel (20m 11s):

Who is CEO at Plum, as well as being a Canadian. And she came on and talked about assessments, which was fantastic. I was engaged the whole time. She's obviously very eloquent, she is very passionate about what they're doing. We're still using World War II technology. Like she went into the history of assessments, where we are today. She may or may not have thrown some companies under the bus, which was fun. And Hung Lee, our favorite porn star. By the way, if you, you know, haven't checked him out,

sfx (20m 47s):

push it.

Joel (20m 47s):

So Hung Lee does his newsletter and he highlights us occasionally, and this was one of his favorite episodes as well, whic held some weight to me. So this is what Hung Lee said about assessment witchcraft with Caitlin MacGregor . That episode so Hung said quote, Chad and Cheese are back with a great conversation on assessment with Caitlin MacGregor, which dives into history, sociology, and foundational tenets of assessments. It's fundamentally an assessment for an individual who we assess in isolation from others when we are social and will eventually work with others. So if you're even not that interested in assessments, I think this interview with with Caitlin was fantastic from a lot of different angles.

Joel (21m 33s):

And that rounds up my favorite three episodes from 2022. In summary, I've got the Ruse author, I've got Indeed with Tim Dineen and Jim Durbin, an Assessment Witchcraft with Caitlin MacGregor And your three were, again,

Chad (21m 49s):

My three were Indeed versus LinkedIn, Lieven and I had fun with that on the Battle for Europe. Then our weekly show had Smart Recruiters Times They Are Changing, talking about Jerome stepping down and Snagajob having issues. And last but not least, TikTok is Glassdoor Gone Wild where Julie Calli schooled us on Pay Transparency and TikTok: Recruiting a Different Way with TikTok.

Joel (22m 21s):

Shockingly, no unicorns were mentioned in this episode as our top three shows. Shocking. I can't believe it. I can't believe it. Well, Chad, been a great year. We'll be back with our prediction show. We'll be back with real news and commentary when the world gets out of its holiday funk. Happy holidays to you. Merry New Year.

Chad (22m 39s):

Happy holidays!

Joel (22m 39s):

Happy New Year, all that good stuff. And looking forward to 2023 and all the great episodes yes. That we'll be able to talk about on this same show a year from today probably. And with that kids, we out.

Chad (22m 56s):

We out.

7 (23m 45s):

Thank you for listening to, what's it called? The podcast with Chad, the Cheese. Brilliant. They talk about recruiting. They talk about technology, but most of all, they talk about nothing. Just a lot of Shout Outs of people, you don't even know and yet you're listening. It's incredible. And not one word about cheese, not one cheddar, blue, nacho, pepper jack, Swiss. So many cheeses and not one word. So weird. Any hoo be sure to subscribe today on iTunes, Spotify, Google play, or wherever you listen to your podcasts, that way you won't miss an episode. And while you're at it, visit just don't expect to find any recipes for grilled cheese. Is so weird. We out.


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