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2022 Best Podcast Award
Disability Solutions

EU Wages and the Queen

Believe it or not, minimum wage debate is not exclusive to the U.S. Europe, it turns out, has their own set of issues, so it's no surprise European Union lawmakers have adopted new legislation aimed at guaranteeing “decent” minimum wages for all workers across the 27-nation bloc. The boys discuss and come up with a variety of angles to view the challenges faced by the EU. Then it's Buy-or-Sell with Benivo, MVP Match and GoJob (spoiler alert: things get pretty ugly). And how could be not talk about the queen the week following her passing ... we just do it in a way only The Chad & Cheese Podcast can.


Disability Solutions works with employers each step of the way as consultative recruiting and engagement strategists for the disability community.

INTRO (12s):

Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HR’s most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right where it hurts! Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.

Joel (31s):

Oh Yeah. Germany's chancellor says they must become the best equipped, armed force in Europe. What could possibly go wrong? You were listening to the Chad and Cheese podcast does Europe. I'm your cohost Joel "Barbosa" Cheeseman.

Chad (45s):

I'm Chad, "when they Zig, you Zag" Sowash.

Lieven (48s):

And I'm Lieven "in control of the buttons today" Van Nieuwenhuyze.

Joel (53s):

And on this episode, the EU gets serious about minimum wage, a game of buy or sell. And of course the Queen. Let's do this. Chad, what's the Zi and Zag.

Chad (1m 5s):

Well talk about it. This is, you know, I'm leading up. This is

Joel (1m 7s):

A tease, the tease. Okay. My bad, my bad.

Chad (1m 10s):

It's all the teases, all the tease. So Lieven. How do you feel about being in control?

Lieven (1m 14s):

It's a big responsibility. I mean, it's stress and there's so many buttons I want to push and I'm not allowed to push him because it's not the time had to push him. I would like to do the applause, for example.

Chad (1m 25s):


Lieven (1m 25s):

I not supposed to do the applause, but you get a point it's stress. Totally stressed out.

Chad (1m 31s):

Totally stressed out.

Joel (1m 33s):

You look stressed, Lieven. You look really stressed. Yes.

Lieven (1m 35s):

I know. I know. My glass is empty.

Joel (1m 40s):

Will some shoutouts relax you a little bit? Would some shoutouts ease your mind?

Lieven (1m 46s):

Shout your way.

Chad (1m 47s):


Lieven (1m 47s):


Chad (1m 48s):

First shout out, goes to my wife. That's right. Happy sixth anniversary to Julie on this 21st day of September.

Lieven (2m 3s):

Really don't get on fire.

Chad (2m 5s):

The name of the song is September, which is what we are. And they talk about the 21st of September, which is the day we were married. And the day this podcast comes out.

Lieven (2m 15s):

Okay. So romantic.

Joel (2m 16s):

Was that done on purpose? Like when you were thinking about dates to get married, did you say Earth Wind and Fire inspired let's do the 21st of September.

Chad (2m 23s):

We actually met on the 21st of September.

Joel (2m 28s):

Wow. That's pretty romantic Sowash. I like that.

Chad (2m 30s):

That's what I got.

Joel (2m 31s):

And you know what else is romantic? David Beckham's love of the Queen. That's right. My shout out goes to the England footballer and pop icon David Beckham. He talked to CNN last week and revealed that he had spent over 12 hours waiting in line to pay his respects to her majesty. He told CNN quote, "something like this today is meant to be shared together. So, you know, the fact that we've been here, we're eating Pringles, we're eating Sherbert, lemons, whatever the fuck that is, sandwiches and coffee" Pringles by the way, is proudly made in America. So I'm glad that the Brits are eating Pringles, Posh Spice, however was not in line with her man like your woman would be with you Chad.

Joel (3m 15s):

Posh had better things to do. She shared her love for the Queen on Instagram. Kept it simple. But I regardless, no one Royals like the Royals and no one Royals like David Beckham, shout out to Becks.

Chad (3m 29s):

We're giving a shoutout for a guy for finally being able to be a regular human being and stand in fucking line. I mean, that was a shout out. David Beckham way to go. You're acting like you all the other citizens.

Joel (3m 40s):

Just wasted everyone's time with your anniversary. I can waste everyone's time with a Pringles reference.

Chad (3m 45s):

That's not a waste. Everybody wants to know when you know, we have little things.

Joel (3m 50s):

I wanna know what Lieven's is, cuz he didn't have one when we talked about shout outs two minutes ago,

Lieven (3m 56s):

Not gonna waste anyone's time with shoutouts. That's go to the topics.

Joel (4m 1s):

Where are we going next month? Chad?

Chad (4m 4s):

Oo? Well we're actually, I think we're actually gonna see Lieven this time around when we go to Paris on September 12th and 13th.

Lieven (4m 12s):


Chad (4m 12s):

Are you in Lieven? Are you finally locked in?

Lieven (4m 15s):

I'm totally in. Even though those people from Unleash, they keep ignoring me, but I'm totally in.

Chad (4m 20s):

I told you, we got you covered, man.

Lieven (4m 22s):

Don't worry about it. No, no. You got me covered.

Chad (4m 24s):

That's that's what? This is all about family. We got you covered.

Lieven (4m 28s):

That's nice.

Chad (4m 28s):

You gotta, you can also catch the Vonq with Chad and Cheese in Paris. We're gonna have a rooftop pre-conference party overlooking the Paris skyline and we'll have more details coming your way. If you do not have a ticket, what's your problem. It's Paris. It's Unleash. Go to, click on the events in the upper right hand corner. You go down to Unleash Paris, click on that. And we have a 20% discount link kids go there, get some money off.

Lieven (5m 1s):

I pressed it, right.

Joel (5m 2s):

I was really pushing for a party at the top of the Eiffel Tower and calling it just the tip with Chad and Cheese. But unfortunately Eiffel Tower's way too expensive for our budget. So we can't do that,

Lieven (5m 13s):

But we are going to the Moulin Rouge. Aren't we?

Chad (5m 17s):

We are.

Lieven (5m 18s):

We are! I'll already made reservations! We're going to have dinner in the Mullan Rouge and that's why we're going.

Joel (5m 22s):

I don't really know what to expect. Is it just dancing women?

Chad (5m 26s):

Yeah. Well, first off you haven't been there before, so we can't tell you because this is a surprise.

Lieven (5m 31s):

I've been there tons of times.

Joel (5m 33s):

Well, I can Google it.

Chad (5m 34s):

Why would you do that? Just enjoy the experience.

Joel (5m 39s):

You want me to go in totally blind.

Chad (5m 40s):

Of course, of course I can do that. Like most of what you do.

Joel (5m 45s):

Like the Americans on Dday we're going in blind people. We don't know what we're gonna find.

Chad (5m 48s):

That's right kids it's time for topics.

Joel (5m 52s):

All right. Topics. You wanna do that one? Chad? I gotta get in the mood, man. Give me a topics.

Chad (5m 55s):

Okay, give a second. I got to, Lieven's got the news thing there. You have the sound effects?

Lieven (6m 1s):

Do we have the sound effect for news?

Chad (6m 3s):

I think so. Yeah.

Lieven (6m 4s):

No, I don't think so.

Chad (6m 5s):

Okay. We'll just go without it. TOPICS!.

Joel (6m 10s):

All right. All right.

Chad (6m 13s):

There we go. That'll work.

Joel (6m 16s):

All right guys, the European Union or as the kids call it, the EU, their lawbreakers have adopted new legislation aimed at guaranteeing decent in quotes, "minimum wages for all workers across the 27 nation block," minimum wage across the EU varies widely. The highest minimum wages are in Luxembourg, Ireland, and Germany with the lowest in Bulgaria, Latvia and Estonia. And the EU 21 out of 27 countries have a statutory minimum wage while the other six Australia, Cyprus, Denmark, Finland, Italy, and Sweden have wage levels that are determined through collective pay bargaining. Under the new law member, companies will have to guarantee quote "that their nation minimum wages allow workers to lead a decent life, taking into account the cost of living and wider pay levels"

Joel (7m 6s):

end quote. Guys, what do you think about the EU getting tough on minimum wage? Chad?

Chad (7m 13s):

I think they've been very tough, not all countries, but most, most countries have been much more tough on minimum wage than the United States has. If you take a look at the Intelligence Group, they just did a survey of like over a hundred thousand people or close to a hundred thousand people through, through all the European countries and go to intelligence group, look at their surveys. For the most part, I was astounded by the parody that was happening in some countries around wages. You know, the big question is what's the definition of a decent wage, according to the new rules, you know, EU members, state that they have to measure the existing lowest wage that provides a decent living wage.

Chad (8m 0s):

The hard part about this is? What about the countries that voted against it? You know, does the EU have to provide manpower to audit and enforce this? If the company doesn't enforce it, or if the country doesn't enforce it, who's going to enforce it. I think it's great. And I think the EU is well beyond some of the things that we've done here in the US, but I, I just don't know of those countries who didn't vote for it, how they're going to audit, manage and enforce.

Joel (8m 29s):

Yeah. There's to me, a lot of politics in this, I mean, look times are tough in Europe. Apparently they're gonna get really bad here in the coming months as winter overtakes the continent. And when that happens, politicians like to say shit and pass shit that makes them sound really good. That makes the people happy and gets them votes. And to me, this sort of reeks of politicization of minimum wage. Like you said, Chad, what exactly does a decent living mean? I think it's very subjective. How are you gonna gauge this? Is it gonna be left up to the countries? Is Sweden gonna be able to tell Estonia that they're not paying enough and is Estonia gonna give a shit what Sweden thinks about their wages?

Joel (9m 16s):

I mean, it's very similar to the US where Texas says, you know, they're a sovereign nation or what you make in Mississippi isn't the same as you're buying power in California. This is this just so politicized. I mean, they've given the themselves two years to pass this. I'm guessing that in two years, one, the economy is gonna be better. And number two, all these people will have won reelection and more or less will kind of forget about it and times are good and whatever. So sounds great. A lot of politics. Yeah. Let's wait and see in two years, if anything actually gets done.I was surprised to see the big spreads between the lowest and the highest minimum wage.

Joel (9m 59s):

I mean, if you look at Bulgaria, there's like 363 Euro a month. That's the minimum wage, 363. And in Luxembourg, it's 2,313. So that's quite a big spread. And with travel agreement everyone can travel around. So I would expect people from Bulgaria, be happy to move to Luxembourg. Of course, if they would find a job there, But it costs more to live in Luxemburg. I'm guessing.

Lieven (10m 26s):

Definitely, but still I think the spread is too big to make up for that.

Joel (10m 31s):

Do you bring Luxembourg's you set the floor. So now Estonians are gonna make the base level that a Luxembourgian makes?

Chad (10m 39s):

No, they're not, they're not talking about going base across all the EU they're talking about in the different countries having set up a system that's fair in that country, right?

Joel (10m 50s):

As long as Estonia or whatever can say, Hey, we're paying a decent wage. It's subjective. And so

Chad (10m 56s):

It's like in the states, you look at a living wage is much different in San Francisco than it is in Omaha, Nebraska, right? But we know what those living wages are just the mean in itself. So I would assume the EU said they actually have that they're putting in place controls and fueled inspections to ensure compliance and address, you know, abusive subcontracting, bogus self-employment, non recording overtime, increased work intensity, those types of things. So it sounds like they're going to try to manage and enforce this. But man, that sounds like a lot of manpower.

Joel (11m 31s):

I think you have to set a base and then increase it for inflation year over year. Cause if the US just said, Hey, Texas, pay your people, a living, a decent wage. There's no enforcement there. I don't know how you would.

Chad (11m 43s):

Well, they, they know how to calculate it. We already know how to calculate what a living wage is. It's being able to enforce that it's actually happening. That's the hard part from country to country. It might be easier here from state to state, but they know how to calculate what a living wage is.

Joel (11m 59s):

For that state. Yeah.

Chad (11m 59s):

Oh yeah. For, well, not just for that state also for the Metro. So let's say for instance, Austin versus Dallas versus Omaha, Nebraska, right? Yeah. So the question is Lieven. You guys have, I think there's a hell of a lot more transparency in Europe than there is in the us. So to be able to set those living wages, decent wages, do you think that is something that could be fairly transparent and everybody could see fairly easily.

Lieven (12m 28s):

If you wanna see it, you can see it, it's published, but I guess most people will never even try to find out. But if you look now, there are three groups and you have group one with a minimum wage above 1,500 euros. And Belgium is a proud part of it. You have Luxemburg, Belgium, Ireland, Netherlands, Germany and France. Those are the sixth biggest paying countries. You have group two over 1000 euros, but lower than one thousand 500 with Spain, with Slovenia and the others are below. And I was surprised the see the United States, they would be in group two on average. I'm not sure if you even know it, but at federal level, apparently I just read it.

Lieven (13m 9s):

There is 1,210 euros a month is the minimum wage in the United States. I thought it would be much more. I mean, living conditions are at least comparable with Western Europe. I guess it's more expensive in some ways with a minimum wage like that. It's not like you have a fairly decent living, I guess.

Chad (13m 28s):

Well, and those people generally who are living off that minimum wage don't have healthcare either. So, I mean, you're talking about an entirely different set of problems.

Joel (13m 37s):

Now, the good news is the market dictates that most salaries are above the $7.50 or whatever it is in the US. But $7.50 is miserably low. I think the last time we moved, it was what the Obama administration. Chad. Yep. 2010 or 11, somewhere around there.

Chad (13m 53s):

2008, I think.

Joel (13m 54s):

Okay. Like, come on.

Lieven (13m 55s):

I know, sorry. I was thinking Europe. The good thing is that the economies who are growing the fastest are the small ones, the ones who are paying the least now. So probably within the coming 10 years, those average wages will grow to each other, but still the gap is huge. It's not really fair.

Chad (14m 14s):

Again, we see it here in the US so I'm not really surprised that it's happening in Europe. Although once again, you know, just the transparency, there's more transparency in Europe than there is here in the US, which means you guys can move the needle much faster than we can.

Joel (14m 30s):

Put the needle on the record. Put the needle on the record. All right, guys. How about a little buy or sell?

Chad (14m 35s):

Why don't we take a break first?

Joel (14m 36s):

All right. Let's take a break and we'll play a little buy or sell. All right guys, listeners, hopefully know how this works. We have three startups that have gotten money. Recently we do a summary and then each of us buys or sell that startup. Are you ready to play buy or sell?

Lieven (14m 55s):


Joel (14m 56s):

First up is Benivo. The London based company has raised $12 million in a funding round led by Up Data Partners. This brings total funding to $25 million founded in 2010 Benivo is an end to end employee mobility management platform. Benivo will use the funds to grow their teams in the US, UK, Armenia, and India, and continue to expand their unified mobility solution to address customers in key pain points. Benivo employs 94 people. Chad, are you a buy or sell on Benivo?

Chad (15m 31s):

Am I getting this right? A pivot from apartments to global mobility? Is that where we're going right now? How do these people get money? Seriously? Are they holding investors over a barrel saying that the either give us money for a pivot or your initial investment is gone. The CEO has no experience in this space. And the pivot happened because at least this is what was actually in a story. The CEO said, quote, "it was a chance meeting with a Google HR person", not in depth market analysis or an understanding of the industry. This feels more like a money laundering scenario than anything else.

Chad (16m 13s):

So I can't sell this one fast enough. This is horrible.

Joel (16m 18s):

Horrible, but you love the name, right?

Chad (16m 20s):

Oh Jesus Christ don't even get me started on anything like that.

Joel (16m 23s):

Something for my prostate. Sounds like something to shrink my prostate. Well, Chad, you know that I usually like waves that are strong and I'll take, 'em, a mediocre surfer over with, on a good wave, better than a pro surfer on a shitty wave. And I'll give them this, they're on a good wave. However, I'm kind of with you on this man. I tried really hard single platform. They're saying some right things. What really makes me wanna sell this company though, is that they literally have an explainer video on the homepage about how they raised money. I've never ever seen that before the entire above the fold of their homepage aside from like one little snippet of what they do is how they just raised money.

Joel (17m 8s):

They have the TechCrunch article. They have their press release. I mean that just screams of like, don't look at our stuff. We just made money or we just raise money so, give us your business. The single platform is hot, but this just reeks of like, our investors need a new, a reason to give us more money. We need to stay alive. We're gonna sell them on this one platform, mobility, whatever. And I also love the fact that they call automation of repetitive tasks, auto magic. So they literally have 'auto magic' on their homepage to sell this shit that they're trying to put a lipstick on I'm with Chadman sell, sell, sell Benivo and shrink your prostate in the process.

Joel (17m 58s):

This is a bad company.

Lieven (17m 60s):

Yay. I'm always happy when I come to the soundbites. Okay.

Joel (18m 3s):

Nice explainer video by the way, there it is. Say it.

Lieven (18m 6s):

Yeah. I, I know for the people watching the video.

Joel (18m 11s):

12 million. Yeah.

Lieven (18m 12s):

Cool. Okay. I was kind of surprised when I was looking for a company and I first saw this Benivo cruelty, free pet foods. So I thought this is kind of weird, but then I noticed it's Benivo with I and not with E Benivo. So we got to the right platform and I must say, I like colors. I mean the magenta and the midnight blue. It's interesting. I liked it. I saw the scheme and I thought, okay, this looks interesting. And I actually read it for the people watching the video right now and bottom left now, right of your screen, you can see what I'm looking at right now.

Lieven (18m 52s):

And I read everything and I read it to interest and then I decided to sell anyway. That's about it.

Joel (18m 59s):

Even though you like the colors.

Lieven (19m 0s):

I did like the colors. Yeah.

Joel (19m 1s):

You're a stronger man than I am.

Chad (19m 5s):

Hit the Boo button.

sfx (19m 6s):


Lieven (19m 7s):

Okay. Where's booers boo. Yeah. Boo.

Joel (19m 8s):

There it is. There it is. All right.

Lieven (19m 12s):

No, buy for me. No. Sell.

Joel (19m 15s):

Double boo from Lieven. All right. Go Job a recruitment firm based in France announced a Series B round of financing to the tune of 23 million euros this week, that brings total funding to just over 40 million euros. With this new fundraising GoJob will accelerate its R and D investments, as well as the growth of the US and French markets. The group, which describes itself as a workforce, as a service platform, aims to achieve more than 60% growth by the end of the year and profitability by 2023. Founded in 2015, the company says it has more than 1000 customers.

Joel (19m 56s):