Turkey, stuffing, pumpkin pie and a heavy dose of seasonal goodness from Chad & Cheese make an appearance on this special podcast. No jive turkeys here!
The boys welcome Hourly's Quincy Valencia to talk things in our industry to be thankful for, as well as what turkeys showed-up on our radar in 2020. You'll laugh, you'll cry. Hell, you'll ask for seconds!
PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION sponsored by:
Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HR’s most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right where it hurts! Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.
Thanksgiving show! What's up, everybody as usual, you're listening to the Chad and Cheese podcast. I am your cohost Joel Cheeseman, joined by my Turkey in a whatever.
So Tofurky champion, Chad Sowash and our special guest!
That's right. The Q!
Friend of the show! Queen of chat bots.
We got a rough audience today.
Product innovation at Alexander Mann, she has a long list of accreditation. And she went to this little school down South too. University of Miami.
Quincy (1m 6s):
Chad (1m 7s):
They used to have a football team. Do they have football team anymore?
Quincy (1m 9s):
It's back, baby.
Chad (1m 12s):
Just because they have bling doesn't mean it's back. Welcome back to the show Quincy, how you doing?
Quincy (1m 18s):
Hey, you know what? Never better. Thanks for having me. I love this show.
President Trump soundbite (1m 22s):
Don't be rude.
Quincy (1m 23s):
And you have a birthday coming up.
Joel (1m 25s):
Ooh. How are you celebrating?
Chad (1m 26s):
How are you doing that?
Quincy (1m 27s):
I'm celebrating very Unabomber style at a cabin in the woods.
Chad (1m 34s):
How else would you do it?
Quincy (1m 35s):
I've been writing my manifesto.
Joel (1m 37s):
And a bottle of lotion.
Quincy (1m 39s):
Chad (1m 42s):
Puts it on the skin. Okay. Just so you know.
Quincy (1m 45s):
It's gonna be one of those shows.
Chad (1m 48s):
It's always one of those.
Joel (1m 49s):
We're not even drinking everybody.
Chad (1m 51s):
Joel always asks chat bot or conversational AI. Well, you're the Queen of chatbots. So I'm going with chatbots. How about you?
Quincy (1m 60s):
Look, you're the one who named me that and it was appropriate at the time, but we'd evolved from chatbot. I think some of us have, I mean, chatbots are still out there, right?
Joel (2m 9s):
Queen of conversational AI just doesn't roll off the tongue like Queen of chatbots does?
Quincy (2m 14s):
It doesn't. And so I'm embracing the moniker even though I've evolved beyond it and I'll keep it. It's good. I like it. It sounds good to me. And I liked the crown, so I'll keep it.
Joel (2m 25s):
Do you think the market is moving toward conversational AI? Because everyone I talk to is like, it's a chat bot. So even though the industry wants them to call it conversational AI it's still chatbot.
Quincy (2m 36s):
I mean, cause the truth is most of them still are. I mean that's so let's just call it what it is, what it is. We want to be a conversational AI experience and some of us are moving toward that and how we develop it and how we create the experience for our users.
Joel (2m 49s):
So you think at some point the market will, the market will decipher between the two.
Quincy (2m 54s):
I think it will have to. I mean it.
Joel (2m 56s):
Ok. All right.
Quincy (2m 57s):
But for now I'll take the chatbot moniker. It's ok, I still like it.
Chad (3m 0s):
Quincy's thankful for being called Queen of the chatbots and that today kids is our show. We are talking about what we're thankful about. Quincy, Joel, and myself are going to talk about what we're thankful about and then at the end, cause this is what you want. We're going to talk about our turkeys for 2020. And yes, 2020 has been a shit show of a year, but
Joel (3m 24s):
The whole year was a Turkey.
Chad (3m 27s):
There have been little rays of sunshine in 2020. So we're going to try to focus on that at first and then we're going to hit the Turkey. So right out of the gate, how do you want to start this Cheeseman?
Joel (3m 38s):
Yeah, I think we, we let our guest of honor, the Queen come out of the gate with her first thing that she's thankful for, in 2020.
Quincy (3m 47s):
Yeah. I'm happy to, thanks. So first I'm thankful to be on this show with you guys today.
Joel (3m 51s):
Of course you are.
President Trump soundbite (3m 53s):
Don't be rude.
Quincy (3m 54s):
That's not rude, Donald.
Joel (3m 56s):
Oh, you were going down that path.
Quincy (3m 58s):
No, no, no, no really, no, thanks for it. I really appreciate it. It has been a dumpster fire of a year overall. Can we all just acknowledge that?
Chad (4m 5s):
Quincy (4m 6s):
First and foremost? Okay, good. No, but the thing that I'm most thankful for is our ability at AMS to launch our first product out of our new product division called Hourly, which is yes. Thank you Hourly. Thank you. Thank you.
Chad (4m 22s):
Not in that. Well, I mean that did have to be a bitch though 2020 and you're launching a new product. Tell us a little bit about that because I mean, we talk about products all the time, but launching this year. Yeah,
Quincy (4m 34s):
Yeah. You know, so yeah, we launched, we launched a product that is actually, it's a conversational hiring experience platform. It's end-to-end from discovery through hire specifically targeted to the hourly market. Right in the middle of a pandemic. So that's fun. We have great timing. But what we discovered was that, you know, certainly when March or so rolled around, which is right when we were supposed to be in general availability, we said, Oh, are we really going to do this? And we pulled back a bit because that's when everything started to shut down. And what we discovered as the year went on as we really kind of picked the right year to do it because you know, people everything's shut down and people lost their jobs.
Quincy (5m 15s):
And what we all learned as a nation really, or as the world as a, as a world community, is that the very people that this particular platform was designed for are really drive our economy. It's those frontline workers. It's the barista at Starbucks. And it's the, you know, the cashier at the grocery store. And it's the warehouse workers who are packaging everything to send to us because nobody goes to the store anymore. And so as everyone, you know, lost their jobs, unfortunately, and then as that sort of spike came in and we're hiring people back and we need to find a way to do a couple of things and primarily how do we get them back and make it easier for them? How do we make it easier for the hiring manager and how do we go through the whole process really with some dignity and not treat this population as commodities, which we in talent acquisition sadly have done?
Quincy (6m 5s):
Everything has been designed for the professional market. And we set out to really change that and change the focus and turned out to actually be a really good year to do that. And you know, already being set up to work remotely, even with our development teams, it ended up being actually a really good year for us to do that. So I'm really grateful for the opportunity to have done that and come out with a super cool product that is being just really well received by buyers in the marketplace.
Joel (6m 33s):
Give us some context on that. What's the progress report? Like can you tell users or how many messages are going through the system now or like, did it surpass your expectation? I'm just kinda curious. Cause it's been a couple months, I think since you launched,
Quincy (6m 45s):
It has, so our launch was delayed and we launched into our MVP, our proof of concept beginning of, or end of September, beginning of October. And we did a small pilot to launch. And our first thing, the first thing that I would say is we have, not just the technology, but we have humans behind it. So we started out this conversation, joking between chatbot and conversational AI. The thing with chatbots part, the front end or part of our product is a chatbot or a conversational experience. And all joking aside, we've all been stuck in chatbot hell before, right? Where you starting to engage and you ask a question and it doesn't know what you're talking about.
Chad (7m 21s):
Quincy (7m 21s):
Because chatbots are only as good as they're trained to be. And we didn't want anybody to be stuck there. The point is to get people through the experience in a pleasurable way and keep that forward momentum, or if they're not qualified for a job, get them out and let them know and that conversational way that's not going to work and not keep them stuck there. And so we have humans behind the experience as well as well. So the system is trained to detect if there's frustration in the process, by from the hiring manager who also has that same experience or from the candidate so that the human can immediately interrupt the experience really, or inject themselves into the experience, insert themselves to pick up as a human right in the middle of the chat.
Quincy (8m 4s):
It's not hang on, we'll email you, or we'll call you. They actually take over for the bot. And so we're fully staffed and loaded for bear to pick that up. And we haven't had to do that at all. So we have people sitting around growing, growing cobwebs, right? So we've had people sitting around growing cobwebs. Our number one question that we're getting is, "Is that it?" They're getting through to, you know, through the front end, they're exploring the job they're getting through pre-screen, they're taking an assessment, they're getting self scheduled for an interview. And literally the number one thing that's coming through in our intent report is, "Is that all?" because it's so easy to get through. So I call that a win that's that's good and really, really well. And we have people going, yep, that's it.
Quincy (8m 45s):
You're all set. So that's really good.
Joel (8m 47s):
Chad (8m 49s):
And job seekers should be thankful as well.
Joel (8m 52s):
By the way of chatbot hell and questions not being understood. My, my sex bot has similar issues, but that's a different podcast altogether!
Chad (9m 2s):
It's just because you can't keep your sex bot up
Joel (9m 4s):
While we're thinking. Yeah. The PA or yeah. Anyway. So anyway, my thankful for is, I guess the death of career fairs, in-person career fairs and the rise of the virtual job fair. There's nothing worse in our industry probably than the process of a job fair. People, you know, companies run out of motel or some crappy, some crappy warehouse, somewhere job seekers have to stand in line with their resume in a suit, probably feeling uncomfortable. The weather's shitty. So you gotta deal with that. At least two people from a company have to waste a whole day that go down shitty lunches, you know, deal with people that are frankly probably insane.
Joel (9m 54s):
It's just a horrible experience. So if the pandemic, if something good from the pandemic happened, I think it was the quick euthanasia that happened with the face to face to face crappy, dirty germy job fair. And we have the rise of companies from, you know, ones that just do this specifically like Recruit Virtual to conversational AI companies like Olivia, XO Handshake, which is in the college, which just got $80 million to do that. You've got Text Recruit, who's doing it from an automation standpoint. And that way we've got XOR, Recruitology, sponsor of the show.
Joel (10m 38s):
I mean the list goes on and on, but I hope to God that if there's something good that comes out of 2020, it's the death of these crappy job fairs, both for the job seeker and the recruiter because they're just shitty experiences. So I'm thankful for virtual job fairs everybody.
Quincy (10m 56s):
Chad (10m 57s):
Agreed. My thankful is that a Careerbuilder is the dumpster fire that keeps on giving. Always gives us content Careerbuilder.
President Trump soundbite (11m 7s):
Don't be rude.
Chad (11m 9s):
Earlier this year pulled off a massive Jedi mind trick in April to try to cover massive furloughs. That's right kids, good old Careerbuilder spent cash to replace the "work can work" slogan that wasn't even a year old with the "we're building for you" while passing out cardboard boxes to the staff. Then in September CareerBuilder announced a three year, 300 million talent acquisition tech "commitment" that was air quotes, which was laughable knowing their tech is crumbling and it takes that kind of cash alone just to keep it up and running. So again, massive smoke and mirrors. Then in October CareerBuilder's sells, Oh, Textkernel, but need that tech to power aspects of talent discovery.
Chad (11m 58s):
So they're dismantling tech, which is part of the infrastructure that they need for current products. Then in October, CareerBuilder gets hit with a ransomware attack. I mean, you can't make this shit. They dismantle their engineering staff or their engineering department. They promise to spend money on tech and then they're left with their asses hanging out, for the entire world to see who should be thankful the most, every other vendor that's out there because the level of pure championship stupidity makes all the other mid-level moves that are just minor bullshit, they're easy to miss and brush off.
Joel (12m 41s):
They are the gift that keeps on giving. Thank you, CareerBuilder. And let's hope that Irina stays CEO for the, for the foreseeable future.
Quincy (12m 49s):
Chad, your level of glee and joy and the continued mishaps of CareerBuilder, it concerns me a little bit. I'm wondering for seeking counseling or perhaps you should.
Chad (12m 59s):
This is my counseling.
Joel (13m 1s):
This show is our therapy, Quincy.
Quincy (13m 3s):
All right. All right. That all makes sense now, I get it.
Joel (13m 6s):
All right, Quincy, you're ready for your next thankful item.
Quincy (13m 9s):
I am. So again, continue on the theme of the silver lining, of the dumpster fire of the year, is that the focus that I've seen come on diversity, inclusion, and equality in organizations like we've never seen it before is reported on by the likes of McKinsey and Gartner. Diversity and inclusion officers at companies have seen just an overwhelming influx of inquiries from line managers and leaders in their organizations that have previously put up barriers to any sort of effort to actually get through to them on why diversity and quality and creating an empathetic and flexible workforce is actually important.
Quincy (13m 49s):
And these barriers are just melting and really going away where they actually are getting it for once. And I'm really, really grateful for that. And even at my own organization, which has always really, I'm really proud of AMS where we've always really put that at the forefront, they actually live those values. Last week had an entire day for the entire organization of organizing events, just to celebrate diversity inclusion. And you know, what is it like a day in the life of, of working with a disability, you know, where we had actual people who are living that life and other people were, you know, allowed in to live that with them, and a day in the life of working with, as an LGBTQ member of our organization and so on and so forth.
Quincy (14m 30s):
And so I'm really grateful, you know, it's been a horrible year in that sense for a lot of, in a lot of ways, but people are finally waking up and going, Oh wow, this is important. So I'm hoping that that continues into next year, but I've really seen a shift from it just being window dressing to something that people are actually starting to live and appreciate.
Joel (14m 47s):
Thank God we had Trump to pull us together as a people. Am I right? Am I right? Diversity and inclusion, a reaction to 2020 and, and the world. All right. My second thankful item without getting too cheesy and it'll sound a little cheesy. No, it's not. I'm thankful for Chad, which I think I actually did in our first year. I'm going to set the plate here. I'm going to put some Turkey, some dressing on this. So Chad and I, at least I know are old enough to remember 2000, 2008 and now 20 and now 2020.
Quincy (15m 27s):
Joel (15m 28s):
So 2001, for the kids out there, the dot.com collapse happened. Okay. The job board I was working at went out of business. I was a dot.com casualty. I got to see our whole industry lay waste to a myriad of companies in our business. In 2008, same thing happened, right? I had an, I had my own business. I saw customers drop off the cliff. I saw my business dry up. So when this happened in 2020, and it was locked down, I automatically went back to my life experience and said, Oh my God, half of our sponsors are going to go away in the next 30 days.
Joel (16m 11s):
And then half of those are going to be gone in the next 30 days after that. And then who knows whether or not they'll ever come back or what's going to happen to the show. And Chad and I had legitimate conversations about, okay, the show might be done. Like we might have to go on hiatus or really pull back the content. Maybe just do the weekly show. Holy hell. If I wasn't just floored! We had two sponsors and I won't name them. We had two sponsors, put their sponsorship on pause. All the others were champs stayed in it. And the show has thrived in this down period in a bigger sense. I don't know if it means, you know, if it means that technology companies are way better equipped to handle sort of, you know, market downturns.
Joel (16m 59s):
Whereas 12 years ago, 20 years ago, it was everyone was a job site. And if there wasn't job postings, everyone went out of business and closed the doors. So I feel like the industry as a whole is much healthier than it was a decade or two ago. And I think that our show sort of is a microcosm of the health of the industry. Certainly there are, you know, if you make six figures a year, you're potentially living your best life. If you're, if you're way under that 40,000, 50,000 under, life is really tough. So whether or not the companies are still hiring that are using these services that sponsor our show. I don't know, but I'm incredibly thankful. And if you like the show, you should be thankful, that the sponsors have remained healthy and remain supportive of the show.
Joel (17m 46s):
We even have a fucking new website because our sponsors are so goddamned supportive. And I am super thankful to them in 2020, for sure. It's been a major, major silver lining in my year.
Chad (17m 58s):
I'm gonna springboard off of that and say that in 2020, we have been given "time" back. So usually we're traveling or on airplanes stages doing conferences in, you know, my ideas, our ideas are, are generally flowing, but we never get a chance to slow the fuck down to execute the hard ones. So in 2020, we had that chance. And, and luckily again, with the w with the sponsors help, we created a virtual FeatureRama. We did a Death Match that were death matches were virtual. We dropped new things like beer drop, free Pappy landed big two episode interview with Cindy Gallop.
Chad (18m 43s):
We have a Columbia Professor Suresh Naidu, and I do well with a forthcoming episode of the podcast. And we just launched, as Joel said, phase one of our new content strategy with a brand new website designed by Shaker Recruitment Marketing, complete with a swag shop. So t-shirts, coffee mugs, all that stuff. I mean, dude, it's yeah, Speedos. We'll get those on there. Chad and Cheese on each cheek. Okay. But overall and I think this is happening with TA too, which is why we're seeing adoption or at least movement to adoption much faster is we've had the opportunity to take a step back here, at home where we're still doing as much work, but we've got an opportunity to slow down and execute on things we've wanted to execute on for years.
Chad (19m 34s):
And that's what I'm thankful for.
Quincy (19m 36s):
That's awesome. Good for you.
Joel (19m 39s):
Took me a while to get that sound bite. Cause I was tearing up a little bit. Sorry. Sorry. Can we get to the turkeys now? Is it Turkey time?
Chad (19m 50s):
Quincy, I want to hear your Turkey. Quincy.
Quincy (19m 52s):
I'll give you my Turkey, but first I have to tell you, give you my appetizers to the Turkey that just came out.
Chad (19m 58s):
Come on, man.
Quincy (19m 60s):
So my first appetizer to my, my Turkey is that I didn't win a beer drop. I'm really bitter about that.
Joel (20m 5s):
It's only one month then.
Chad (20m 7s):
Yeah, there, there are more, yeah, you've got more.
Joel (20m 9s):
Patience. This is a forever thing.
Chad (20m 12s):
And as I said, as a long time bourbon drinker, I'm salivating over the Pappy, so. Yeah. So are we, cause we have to give them away.
Joel (20m 22s):
I have to look at it every day.
Quincy (20m 24s):
I know. I know. And the second thing, this just literally just came up right now, but a real, real big Turkey would be. I just heard you say something about having Chad and Cheese on each cheek, please. God, no. No one needs that in their life.
President Trump soundbite (20m 40s):
Don't be rude.
Quincy (20m 43s):
The real Turkey of the year is that it's a softball, but it's real is all the job loss, man. Can we be done with that? Let's get through the rest of this year and look forward into a new, I'm going to say it and new administration and some new hope and come on, big pharma up for once and bring forth the vaccine and let's get back to doing what we do.
Joel (21m 2s):
Chad enjoys getting some time back and taking a breath. I'm ready to get back on a plane and go somewhere.
Quincy (21m 7s):
I'm ready to get back on a plane and go somewhere too.
Chad (21m 10s):
Don't don't get me wrong. Don't get me wrong. So here's a question for everybody real quick. If the shot came out tomorrow at the 95%, that it is right now, would everybody roll up their sleeve and take it?
Quincy (21m 21s):
I will. I'm in.
Chad (21m 23s):
Joel (21m 24s):
Dude, how is your poll has very few answers to date, but almost 46% won't. I don't understand, that's a different podcast, but I don't understand how half of our fellow citizens think vaccines are bullshit or dangerous or whatever. It just blows me away.
Quincy (21m 40s):
Don't know, but I'll be in line first and I'll be the first back on a plane.
Chad (21m 44s):
Quincy (21m 45s):
So let's make it happen and get some jobs back for people.
Joel (21m 50s):
Okay. It's time for my Turkey of the year. My God, my list is long. I'll preface this a little bit with, with my age again. Okay. Every so often when a consumer business pops people run to create the jobs of whatever it is, that's popular.
Chad (22m 8s):
Joel (22m 8s):
Okay. So, so when I'll go, I'll go back even further. So when Facebook popped, you guys probably remember Branch Out and Be Known, right? Like everyone and then even had like social networks for jobs and people are going to like socialize over jobs and da da da. So all those businesses are gone. And then you, then you had, yes. So Chad talked about the Tinder for jobs, right? Like people are just gonna look at job listings and swipe left or right. With little relevancy to a search query or what I actually do. There's no AI around, Oh, we'll just access your LinkedIn profile and know what jobs you're looking for. And we'll give you like, it's just total random jobs.
Joel (22m 50s):
And just because you swipe right or left, people think, Oh, it's going to be a successful business because dating was successful in that. Forget the fact that dating apps like come down to whether you're having sex or not. And jobs have no relevancy to that whatsoever. So when the TikTok thing happened, you know, late last year, obviously I knew no one's going to do this. Right? Because Snap, I feel like there weren't any really Snapchat for jobs that were even on the radar there probably some out there. But when Tik Tok came up, I thought, Oh no, one's going to be dumb enough to do that. So about two months ago I posted on LinkedIn and I jokingly said, okay, which one of you is dumb enough to create Tik Tok for jobs.
Joel (23m 31s):
People laugh like oh that would be really stupid and no way. And then I get a DM saying, Oh, it's here. Meet Heroes Jobs. Okay. So you go to heroes.jobs, essentially TikTok for jobs and a site called heroes.jobs. We talked about these guys a few weeks ago. They're slightly offended. They're a bit pissed off that we talked about them. I'm sure they're very nice people, but this thing is hot garbage destined for the dust bin of employment site history, technology history. I downloaded this thing against my best judgment. You go through it and they at least get your location.
Joel (24m 14s):
Okay. And then they just send you jobs that aren't their jobs, I'm sure, they're probably pulled from some API and it gets you the listing, right? There's no, there's no personality. They make it look like all these companies are gonna have cool videos about what it's like to work there. There are no videos. It's just stupid job postings. And then if you went on to apply, they expect you to do the cool video about what you're looking for. And then they promise like, Oh, you'll be chatting with the employer, which I doubt. And then they, and then if you go to their website, they sort of pitched like, Oh, heroes for, you know, essential workers. And we're doing our part to defeat COVID and get people back to work. So they're almost sort of leveraging the pandemic to pull your heart strings, to use this crappy shit technology.
Joel (24m 60s):
Anyway, my Turkey with a bullet, not even really that hard was heroes.jobs or Heroes Jobs soon to be coming to a dead pool near you. Hopefully we'll be talking about that in the next six months or so heroes jobs, Turkey galore. Thank you.