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2022 Best Podcast Award
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Careerbuilder Caught Red-Handed

After a 2-week hiatus, the boys are back from Recfest and some R &R in Europe and ready to rip shit up. In their crosshairs? CareerBuilder,, SHRM, SmartRecruiters, and even Burger King all feel the burn. Plus, a conspiracy theory from Chad, a 20-year Army veteran, on the state of military recruitment you don't want to miss. It'll be like they never left.

You're welcome!

TRANSCRIPTION SPONSORED BY: Disability Solutions partners with our clients to build best-in-class inclusion programs and reach qualified, talented individuals with disabilities of every skill, education, and experience level.

INTRO (1s):

Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HR’s most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right where it hurts! Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.

Joel (22s):

Oh yeah. Just two guys. Still figuring out which Spice Girls they want to impregnate. Hey boys and girls, you're listening to the Chad and Cheese podcast. This is your co-host Joel "Posh" Cheeseman.

Chad (36s):

This is Chad "back in the New York groove" Sowash.

Joel (40s):

And on this week show TMP or, I mean, Radancy has a new roommate CareerBuilder gets caught stripping and layoffs?

Chad (52s):

Lay offs.

Joel (52s):

Let's do this.

Chad (57s):

Oh yeah.

Joel (58s):

Aw. Did you miss us everybody?

Chad (1m 0s):

Two weeks away, baby. Two weeks away,

Joel (1m 3s):

Three weeks away in beautiful Europe man. Are you still there? Are you back? I'm so confused.

Chad (1m 9s):

Oh no. I'm back. It took us forever to get back because of this bag, fucking baggage luggage situation in Heathrow, we actually were stalled on the tarmac for like two hours while they were loading.

Joel (1m 23s):

Was it melting? Was the tarmac melting?

Chad (1m 25s):

It was Luton. That was Luton. But we got, we got to JFK. We could make our connection. So sunny side of this bad boy, we actually got New York style pizza, which is my favorite pizza in the world. Had to stay the night, but got back yesterday

Joel (1m 41s):

And you slept for what? 20 hours? And you're ready to podcast apparently.

Chad (1m 46s):

I am ready. I hope I remember how to do this shit. Yeah.

Joel (1m 49s):

Yeah. So I, I took a different route from you after RecFest. I went to Liverpool for a day and a half or so and saw Beatle shit. It's a very, it's a very underrated, hidden gem of the UK, Liverpool. I highly recommend it.

Chad (2m 4s):

Never heard that.

Joel (2m 5s):

And then, yeah, I'd never heard that. And then flew off to a beautiful Scandinavia ~ Helsinki to meet up with my wife who's doing a conference she's actually still there some days in Helsinki, which there's no other whiter place that I've been. I mean, it is a white, rice skin, not light skin, rice skin country. We went up to

Chad (2m 28s):


Joel (2m 29s):

Yeah. They're almost invisible. No one lives there. It's so it's so white. We went up to Ulu about two hour train ride north.

Chad (2m 36s):

Excuse you?

Joel (2m 37s):

And then this is all my wife. She wanted to go to the north like Arctic Circle. So we literally drove, rented a car, went up to the Arctic Circle where it, the line crosses. And there's literally a line there that says, Hey, you are now entering the Arctic Circle and no surprise to anyone. There's a Santa's village on the Arctic Circle where even in July, Santa is there with kids on his lap, getting wishes and you can buy really cheap gifts and ornaments and have really bad food. If you want. It's sort of a Disney on crack with Santa Claus at the Arctic Circle.

Joel (3m 17s):

It's a different world. And then we came back to Helsinki and actually enjoyed some civilization and the Scandinavian hospitality. And I've been back for about a week, but I enjoyed our trip. And I know you did too, just from the pictures and I know who you hung out with and it's good to get away from the mic for awhile. But I think we're both ready to do some show

Chad (3m 41s):

That's right. Yeah. You go to the north pole and I go to the Southern coast of Portugal. I mean, go fucking figure.

Joel (3m 48s):

Yeah. You married who you did. And I am married who I did and that's just the way it goes sometimes kids.

Chad (3m 54s):

It is what it is. So, but yeah, before we jump into too much, from a Recfest standpoint, I've got to do pre Recfest stuff. First and foremost, Gem and Rob from Talent Nexus. They treated to Julie and I to a night on the town. Oh my God. So many different drinks. It was ridiculous. Then we hit the Pandologic shindig. And when I say we, it was Julia and I, because you had a total rookie move, you missed it entirely.

Joel (4m 28s):

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So you, so yeah, my rookie move, you sort of bounced out of RecFest early. Yes. Because, because you party too hard cowboy, that's the rookie move. So I got to party with the EDM crowd at the end of the show and got to hang out with CandidateID Stephen until the wee hours of the night, if you will.

Chad (4m 51s):

Love it.

Joel (4m 52s):

In a Scottish accent. But yeah, granted, you got some benefits of coming early and doing that thing, but I got a little bit of advantage with enjoying more of the show, but yeah, I appreciate the rookie comment.

Chad (5m 3s):

We'll talk about my move here in a minute, but yeah, let's talk about RecFest. I mean, bigger, better, amazing Ferris wheel. I was incredibly surprised cause 2019 was our first time. Did it not seem bigger?

Joel (5m 16s):

There was a Ferris wheel for God's sakes. Yes. It felt bigger as the Brits say it was legend, man. It was "legend," legend.

Chad (5m 25s):

And you were shattered after it was over.

Joel (5m 28s):

Keep in mind, dude, we were not insulated, but we were there early. We were sort of in our realm of conference where we introduced an emceed. So we got to hear second hand the lines, you know, the traffic, the masses of people that came. We only got to see them once we, sorta got relieved of our duty, but I don't think you and I have as much appreciation for how big this thing was because we were emceeing and sort of glued to the stage with our presentation.

Chad (6m 3s):

Everybody wanted to get to RecFest. It's funny Shelley, from Recruitment Flex, she hired a fucking photographer. That was next level shit. I got it. That's a big applause for Shelley. I got to see the pictures.

Joel (6m 14s):

Yeah. And by the way, I was seeing like drone photos. There was some pictures of overhead shot of all the cars. So Jamie spared, no expense with a, with the media at this content. It was great. The videos from it are just now starting to pop, so good stuff.

Chad (6m 30s):

Yeah. The Australians brought us whiskey. So Craig and Lauren from TApod brought us whiskey. It was, it wasn't amazing because it was Australian, but it was whiskey and it was good enough that it didn't even last an hour. So thanks guys. Appreciate the whiskey.

Joel (6m 45s):

And those are apparently aged with a kangaroo and scorpion venom or something. So it had a unique taste that Australian whiskey did.

Chad (6m 57s):

Yes. Yes. They were treating their fellow podcasters like royalty, I guess the Australian way. But Lois, her green room was money. I'm just mad I didn't get a chance to get a massage. That's that was one of the things I've got to do next year.

Joel (7m 15s):


Chad (7m 16s):

Massage. No, they had massages there. I just didn't make time. I was doing other shit I should have next year I'm making time.

Joel (7m 24s):

Were you a little jealous that the Australians had hats for their podcast? Just a little bit?

Chad (7m 32s):

No, not at all. I was not.

Joel (7m 33s):

I'm not lugging those things around the country.

Chad (7m 37s):

Nothing beats our t-shirts baby, nothing beats our t-shirts.

Joel (7m 39s):

Although nice trucker hat with Chad and Cheese might not be the worst thing in the world. You know, Chad, the thing with me about going to events again is just how much it's about the people. And we're going to mention a bunch of people and we already have very few of the engagement or conversations with these folks had anything to do with recruiting. And, I find that that is really sort of the secret sauce of what we do is that we're people that care about people. And as cliche as that is, that's how it should be. If I'm talking to Matt Alder, it's not about even the podcast or the industry, it's about like what scotch we're going to drink next.

Joel (8m 20s):

Or if it's Steven McGrath, it's, you know, the fact that the dude has a metal plate in his face and he takes punches from Adam Gordon's kid at the conference, or my favorite moment was with Matt Charney. Those who know both Matt and I know that we are really big Oasis fans.

Chad (8m 40s):


Joel (8m 41s):

While Oasis broke up about 13 years ago. So the chance to see them together is almost none, however, a cover band called Noasis, which you'll only see in the UK played cover songs from roughly the first two albums of the band. Charney and I were in absolute mosh pit heaven. And he even tweeted about, I've never been so happy in a long time as I am with Joel Cheeseman, watching no Oasis cover bands. So although RecFest is about the industry and getting together, it's really about the people and the fact that we can go, you know, across the Atlantic and make connections on a global scale. It's just really, really humbling and really, really cool and a great benefit of having this dumb podcast that we do.

Chad (9m 24s):

Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah. We got a chance to meet Stubbs, which was awesome.

Joel (9m 28s):

On stage.

Chad (9m 29s):

He got a chance to come on stage with us. We did, as you mentioned, got a chance to meet Rudy, which is Adam Gordon's little man who actually did some sound work for us back in the day.

Joel (9m 43s):

If we had a poster. He might put our poster on his wall. That's how much this kid loves the Chad and Cheese podcast.

Chad (9m 49s):

We might need a poster. We might need a poster.

Joel (9m 54s):

I like the stepbrothers thing poster. And he loves to say "we out"

Chad (9m 59s):

Yeah. Oh God. So got a chance to meet Louise. I can't believe we've actually been working with her for this long and haven't met her face to face? Met her, but it was just amazing, man. There were so many people, Jamie, Lois, Charlotte, the rest of the staff, they treated us like royalty. It was amazing. One thing that I was surprised about, and I'm going to throw this out there for our friends from iCIMS. I can't believe that iCIMS was there and they were out done by Smart Recruiters? Smart Recruiters had their own stage. Smart Recruiters, I mean, they'd like literally really killed the marketing where iCIMS literally didn't. And I thought, and I had no clue on how this is going to get set up, but I thought that iCIMS would come and they would come to RecFest hard.

Chad (10m 49s):

Yes. I said it come hard to RecFest, but they didn't. So I here's the challenge to Susan and the marketing team don't allow that shit to happen again. Don't be fucking trumped by another organization who is less than half your size. That just blew my fucking mind. I couldn't believe that.

sfx (11m 12s):

Maw the meatloaf! FUCK!

Chad (11m 13s):

And a teaser though, a teaser, you saw the mullet RecFest. You saw that, right?

Joel (11m 17s):

Yeah, I did. I did.

Chad (11m 19s):

Somebody said that the RecFest is like light, like a mullets, you know, a business in the front party in the back. So Jamie actually had that created in a cartoon, but it was in like stars and stripes, all that other fun stuff. And this is the tease kid! RecFest is coming to the US. I can see it. It's happening 2023. Get ready for it.

Joel (11m 42s):

This is just you pontificating. This is not like announced news.

Chad (11m 46s):

This is not announced, but I'm teasing this. I know it's going to happen.

Joel (11m 49s):

He's got to come.

Chad (11m 50s):

It's going to come to the US in 2023.

Joel (11m 53s):

And the US needs a recruiting circus to come to town from Britain.

Chad (11m 57s):

It's a carnival. It's fucking awesome!

Joel (11m 59s):

Yes. Now the question is, what city would you have it in?

Chad (12m 3s):

That's a good question, because there are plenty of opportunities, right? Where could we hold a carnival? A recruiting festival/carnival? That's a good question. You know, there, I think it depends on the time of year. If it's this time of year. Holy fuck. I mean, there were going to be a handful of places that aren't going to melt.

Joel (12m 22s):

Yeah. Maine.

Chad (12m 22s):

People that are coming right. Yeah. Time of the year is, I think, a big factor.

Joel (12m 27s):

Yeah. Yeah. I agree.

Chad (12m 29s):

All I can say is I have no fucking clue, but I know that shit's happening. Yeah.

Joel (12m 33s):

Yeah. There's gotta be room like outside Atlanta or something. That's a big enough airport.

Chad (12m 37s):

And what I love about it is and the European shows are really kicking ass. We were at Unleash, you know, that was, that was in Vegas and that in itself is 180 degrees, different than RecFest. They are entirely different with regard to the types of audiences that they're trying to pull in. Attendees that they're trying to pull in. They're two entirely different animals. It feels like Europe has this shit figured out and the US is still stuck in the 1950s with conferences.

Joel (13m 7s):

It's crazy, right? Yeah. It's nuts. It's nuts. Come on America. Come on America. You're embarrassing us. You're embarrassing us. By the way, Chad, I got to say the side note when we were in Oulu, which is not a mainstream city in Finland, I'm sitting on like one of the strips of where people walk, you know, Europe, right? People are walking around, they're doing the scooter thing. America still has a presence. Chad, I go look on this street. There's a Burger King. There's a McDonald's.

Chad (13m 39s):


Joel (13m 39s):

There's a Subway.

Chad (13m 40s):


Joel (13m 40s):

And there's a Taco Bell, baby.

Chad (13m 43s):

There's sad.

Joel (13m 44s):

Oulu, Finland

Chad (13m 44s):

Fucking sad.

Joel (13m 45s):

Speaking of Burger King, I have a non RecFest inspired shout out.

Chad (13m 48s):

Okay. Let's hear it.

Joel (13m 49s):

All right. So in Europe, so this shout out is to Kevin Ford. Burger King employee, Kevin Ford never missed a day's work in the 27 years he spent as a cook at the Las Vegas location.

Chad (14m 2s):


Joel (14m 2s):

How do you think burger King thanked Mr. Ford for his 27 years of service? Gold watch maybe?

Chad (14m 11s):

Huge Shindig. No big shindig! Especially in Vegas. You're talking Vegas, baby. You take over, you know, like a conference or some shit like, yes!

Joel (14m 17s):

This is Burger King we're talking about. So slow your roll a little bit.

Chad (14m 20s):

All right. You mean the second largest, fast food chain in the world? Is that where you're talking?

Joel (14m 24s):

That's what I'm talking about. Maybe if you worked it in and out. All right. Burger King gave him a backpack, a movie ticket, a Starbucks cup.

Chad (14m 36s):

Oh my God.

Joel (14m 37s):

Here's the kicker Chad. Candy.

sfx (14m 40s):

What did you say?

Chad (14m 42s):

What the fuck??

Joel (14m 42s):

A way to thank a 27 year old vet at your company. Great resignation. Be damned. We're not going to celebrate our old timers. Now this does have a happy ending, Chad.

Chad (14m 52s):

Okay. Thank God.

Joel (14m 53s):

After a clip of this, Mr. Ford accepting his gifts went viral. His daughter set up a GoFundMe page to help pay for travel, to see his grandkids. Apparently the comments on the video, weren't real nice to Burger King and Mr. Ford getting screwed over.

Chad (15m 15s):

Imagine that?

Joel (15m 15s):

To their surprise, they've received over $350,000 in donations, including a $5,000 donation from actor David Spade. Yeah. A lot of people are in college for seven years. They're called doctors. Ford still has no plans to retire or take a day off for a vacation. No word on a rapper Rob Bass changing his mind on the Whopper, but BK, Burger King, not so good, man. Not so good. Not a shout out for you. Not a shout out for you. Shout out for Kevin Ford for 27 years of cooking burgers at the home of the Whopper.

Chad (15m 46s):

Damn birthdays

Joel (15m 47s):

Birthdays also free shit. Everybody. I know we're, we're deep into shout outs, but go to go to, click free whiskey by by Textkernel, shirts and beer. We have new sponsors. I think we talk about beer, right? Aspen Technology is our new beer sponsor and our new shirt sponsor. Can we talk about that yet? Let's do it. JobGet new sponsors, new merch, head out to and yes, let's go to birthdays, everybody. Okay. We got a few because we miss some weeks celebrating another year around the sun. Jason Morris, my former boss and my first SEO customer back in 2005 and big happy birthday to Jason Morris.

Joel (16m 33s):

Jeff Hunter. You remember Jeff Hunter Chad? From EA.

Chad (16m 36s):


Joel (16m 37s):

Yeah. He had the UnConference back in '07. '08. Yeah. What happened? What happened at conferences?

Chad (16m 43s):

Blast from the past.

Joel (16m 47s):

Oh, another blast from the past. Do you remember Christian Anderson? Chad he's the former Jobster PR guy. So he got And now back to some more familiar folks, George LaRocque. He's going to LaRocque out with his cock out on his birthday. Roy Mauer, Brian Chaney, Trent Cotton, Christina White, Lily Siegel Gardner. Justin Spencer, David "Steven Seagal" Bernstein, Eddie O'Neill, Ellen Spiegel, Lee Quavis, Rob Bursey <inaudible> check that, he or she is in the middle east, which is cool.

Joel (17m 28s):

Matt, that British guy, Alder, Ben Saggers, which sounds like a nickname for a certain part of my body and Claire Hovland and a fan favorite, Sir Richard Collins. Happy Birthday everybody! Happy birthday!

Chad (17m 47s):

Yeah. Also a little love to Richard and Beverley Collins, they've got a well deserved victory lap at RecFest. If you remember in RecFest 2019, I actually asked Richard, when are they going to get acquired? The very next day they got acquired by Indeed. Right? So we haven't really had like a full RecFest until this year. And they got to take a victory lap, man just treated like royalty. That was awesome. Now my rookie move, just so that you know, was not so rookie because Julie and I actually had a chance to spend a couple of nights at Richard and Bee's place. So we had a great time. Wonderful hospitality got to love the Brits.

Chad (18m 28s):

Big shout out to Richard and Bee.

Joel (18m 30s):

Yes, sir. Did you get to drive the Maserati? That's the question? That's the real question we want to know. Chad, did you drive at least ride in the Maserati?

Chad (18m 43s):

Well, first off, no, it was the Porsche.

Joel (18m 45s):

My bad, my bad, my bad. Did you get to pick the car that you drove the luxury European car drove?

Chad (18m 53s):

Why would I do that? They were all pretty awesome. I just got in.

Joel (18m 58s):

Geez. Does he have like a country house with hunting dogs, a horse stable and shit? Jesus is just getting out of hand.

Chad (19m 3s):

It's pretty. It's pretty awesome. I'll give you that.

Joel (19m 6s):

All right, man. Where are we? Where are we traveling next? And by the way, our travel is sponsored by Shaker Recruitment Marketing. Ooh, we loved them. We loved them long time, but where are we headed for the rest of the summer and into fall Chad?

Chad (19m 20s):

We're taking August off kids. We're going to just going to chill. Okay. Because you know, we need a little time to take a breath. September 13th through the 16th at Mandalay Bay, HR Tech, baby. That's where we're going to be. And this is the shout out. As we had said, we need to see you scale it up. Big boy, up some HR Tech. Can't wait to be there.

Joel (19m 41s):

For sure. They need to scale that shit up. Just cause you have it in Vegas. Doesn't mean it's off the chain doesn't mean it's off the chain.

Chad (19m 58s):


Joel (19m 59s):

All right, man. All right. Let's talk about the artist formerly known as TMP now known as Radancy sending the private equity. Chad, New York city-based Radancy, obviously a TMP for us old folks has "partnered" and I put "partnered" in quotes with New York City-based new Mountain Capital terms of the deal were not disclosed. BU the partnership will enable Radancy to accelerate its software, product roadmap and expand its suite of services. Focusing on helping enterprises, optimally identify, engage and hire talent. Founded in 1999 New Mountain Capital manages $37 billion in assets. Chad, this feels like a big deal that isn't getting a ton of publicity.

Joel (20m 40s):

Just do a search on Google news. What's your take on what just happened?

Chad (20m 45s):

You got to ask yourself, why would they be taking money in the first place? Right? I mean, they, they have a PE daddy already and they should be, I mean, they've got a hell of a portfolio. So why the fuck are taking capital anyway? For all the kids in the audience who really don't know that much about Radancy, right? And see just a quick basic history. TMP Worldwide was founded in 1967. Kids been around for a while, acquired by Gemspring Capital back in April of 2018. Since the acquisition in 2018, 5 acquisitions, CKR interactive, Perengo, Maxim, Carve, and First Bird.

Chad (21m 26s):

So about a decade ago, I believed every recruitment marketing agency needed to buy or build their own tech. It was totally in fashion back then to become a tech provider. But today recruitment marketing agencies cannot keep pace with innovation after being saddled with tons of technical debt, integrations from acquisitions and the basic day to day wondering if you're a creative agency or a tech house, it's weird because Michelle Abby's still there. And I would have thought that, you know, she would have taken the win after the acquisition and just kinda like, you know, went off into the sunset, enjoyed some vacation, maybe came back and created something new and fresh, but she stayed.

Chad (22m 12s):

And the big win now is, it's looking more like the prospect of a big loss. I don't understand what Radancy wants to be when they grow up?

Joel (22m 21s):

I guess, rich. So companies are almost never better when private equity moves in.