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CareerBuilder Misdirection

A hot mess inside a dumpster fire inside a train wreck might best describe this week. The boys unleash on everyone from:

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How about Amazon drones up in ya’ face! 2020 keeps gettin’ kinda hectic. As always, the weekly episode is sponsored by JobAdx, Sovren, and Jobvite.


INTRO (14s):

Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HR’s most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry, right where it hurts! Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark, buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.

Joel (21s):

We're a hot mess inside a dumpster fire inside a train wreck. Welcome to the Chad and Cheese podcast. I'm your cohost Joel "$750" Cheesman. And I'm Chad "I'm never watching another debate in my life" Sowash.

Chad (56s):

Yeah, you are. And on this week's show, LinkedIn has stories, Indeed flexes, Career Builder wipes away a text kernel, and ISIM's gets a fresh coat of paint. It's October and this election has me scared as hell. We'll be right back after we stand down and ... Man just shut up.

Sovren (1m 22s):

Sovren Parser is the most accurate resume and job order intake technology in the industry, the more accurate your data, the better decisions you can make. Find out more about our suite of products today by visiting, that's S O V R E We provide technology that thinks, communicates and collaborates like a human. Sovren ~ software so human you'll want to take it to dinner.

Joel (1m 28s):

🎵 It's the end of the world as we know it 🎵 Dude, I'm sick and tired of being locked down. The Titans and Steelers game is postponed because of COVID. Indians eliminated sweat by the Yankees. Baseball doesn't exist right now. The debate, were not a debate, fucking Trump.

Crowd - sound effects (-):


Chad (1m 47s):

But, kids, kids, there's a light at the end of the tunnel.

Joel (1m 47s):


Chad (1m 48s):

The Chad and Cheese. What? That's the Chad and Cheese are bringing the season of giving early.

Joel (1m 56s):

Tell me more.

Chad (2m 24s):

Yes. This this thing we're calling a beer drop, where you find listener, you find listener and come to We're going to have a bunch of other things too, and you can register to get beer sent to your front door. One lucky listener, one winner per month. We are going to curate. We're going to think about this. We're going to taste and we're going to send you the best beer! And where, where do I go to do that? that's

Joel (2m 45s):

We gotta fine October Fest with someone's name on it for this month. We're going to go October Fest, seasonable. So exciting. So exciting. And guess what! What? T-shirts are in! That's right kids!

Chad (2m 59s):

That's right, Version 2.0 of the Chad and Cheese t-shirt yes. Well answered by our buddies at Emissary are in. So yes, if you want beer and a chance, a free tee shirt head on out to We're givers. Joel, we are givers We're givers. And that being said, Shout Outs. Shout Outs.

Chad (3m 30s):

So Jackye Clayton, you know her from Hiring Solved. Remember she got, her and Jeremy both unfortunately were downsized, but Jackie is now DEI strategist over at Seek Out Anoop, our buddy, Anoop he knows good people when he sees them now Hiring Solved alum, Jeremy Roberts, Jeremy Roberts. Jackie Clayton are reunited. And it sounds like a coup. And knowing Jeremy, he's getting a referral bonus, a finder's fee and probably a steak dinner for getting Jackie in the door there. Feels so that's good.

Joel (3m 52s):

Good things happen to good people and dammit, Jackie and Jeremy, you go.

Chad (4m 19s):

More of a SmackDown than a Shout Out. Last year, Wells Fargo's 2019 income was near $20 billion. And back then the CEO and President Charles Scharf said, I quote, "Wells Fargo is a wonderful and important franchise that has made some serious mistakes. And my mandate," this is Charles "is to make the fundamental changes necessary to regain the full trust and respect of all stakeholders. Then ... Em, hummm...

Chad (4m 51s):

Sharp's dumb ass drops a memo with it that actually says quote, "while it might sound like an excuse..." It does Charles, "the unfortunate reality is that there is a very limited pool of black talent to recruit from," end quote. I'm going to go back to that $20 billion in income, and you want talent to just fucking appear. You want government to provide you with the program and welfare, governmental welfare to fill your talent gap? And my message to Wells Fargo is fuck you. This is ridiculous.

Joel (5m 37s):

I'm going to do a one 80 and give a Shout Out to the new Borat movie that's coming. Oh my God. Oh my God. It's the end of 2020 with Borat. Yeah, it looks like it's going to be an Amazon Prime exclusive coming out pretty soon. But yeah, if you, if you remember the 2006 film, you knew that 2020 would be a perfect time for a new Borat, and God damn, it's coming, new Borat on Amazon. Very nice. Gotta be stoke.

Chad (5m 39s):

A big Shout Out to James Boettcher. You might remember him as the Head of Righteous Gelato.

Joel (5m 39s):

Boettcher , I hardly know her.

Chad (6m 12s):

I love his gelato. You remember this guy, right? I mean the Righteous Gelato was listed in the top 400 fastest growing companies in Canada for the second year in a row. And they are coming South baby. That's right. As soon as they lift the COVID border issues, I guarantee you we're going to have some righteous shit down here in the U.S.

Joel (6m 23s):

Very nice, very nice. Say a Shout Out to Adam Chambers. Our favorite, our favorite leprechaun actually, can you call Irish leprechauns? Is that racist?

Chad (6m 22s):

I don't know. Good question.

Joel (6m 54s):

Adam Chambers. God bless him on LinkedIn. The dude has no filter, announced that he had quote an actual, real legitimate client. Finally. So Adam, thank God for you and your transparency. Good luck with that new client. Hopefully you can get some more new clients or real clients there in Ireland. Cause apparently if you don't have Irish customers, it's hard to get Irish customers, go figure.

Chad (7m 5s):

Shout Out to Dev Skiller, lists babies lists that way. That's right. Dev Skiller's, International Podcast Day list, only listed four podcasts, and one of those podcasts was the Chad and Cheese podcast.

Joel (7m 10s):

Oh, stop. We were in the final four?

Chad (7m 29s):

Yeah. In the final four. Jason Banks who we might've known a few weeks ago, actually he made a list. He was teasing us cause he knows we're suckers for lists. And he said that he's thinking about creating a top Chad and Cheese podcast list. We could call it a playlist, maybe. Of our podcasts? Yeah! Wow. That's a lot of podcasts to go through, dude needs a life, if he's going to go through our shit. 550 plus podcast guys. Oh, Chad knows everybody. Chad knows.

Joel (7m 57s):

Shout Out to Joanne Lockwood, friend of the show and a good, just a good, good person. She wrote an article on this Scotland Herald, which I'm sure is a legitimate publication. In Scotland. About how meritocracy needs to be busted. If you haven't checked that out, go search Google for Joann Lockwood, Scotland Harold meritocracy, or any combination of those words. You'll probably find it big shout out to her good people.

Chad (8m 37s):

That's right jim Stroud, read it. Understand it. A big Shout Out to Matt Baxter. Remember the CEO of of Wedgie or wedgie wedgie. Yeah, that's right. He interviewed me on his podcast. Everybody has a fucking podcast. These days, episode dropped this week and they just received a million dollars in funding. So who knows Matt might be bringing Wedgie to Firing Squad.

Joel (8m 37s):

Did you get a metaphorical wedgie on the show? Did he?

Chad (8m 44s):

Who wouldn't?

Joel (8m 54s):

Funny story, offline, I'll tell you about wedgies. Okay. So a Shout Out to Sebastian Domingez. Is there a cooler name than Sebastian Dominguez?

Chad (8m 56s):

Sounds like a Disney character. Something like a Prince. I don't know. Beauty and the Beast.

Joel (9m 16s):, another friend of the show, their new VP of sales, who they got from Indeed. So wow, good on you, poaching from Indeed for your VP of sales. It's nice work. formerly Neuvoo.

Chad (9m 52s):

Shout Out to Talent Talks. So a Joveo has this video series called Talent Talks, which the host is Jen Terry Tharp. We know her, she's been on the podcast. She'd spent 20 plus years over at AT&T. She knows her shit, and for some reason she had me on. We actually recorded two episodes because we were drinking and we went over time. And so we did two episodes instead, but those are going to be coming out in the next a week or so look at the socials. I don't know. Maybe if you're using Chad and Cheese in your pocket, we might actually send them there.

Joel (9m 52s):

Go another event with a friend of the show, the global HR tech virtual symposium. Yes. That's a mouthful. October 6th, Jobvite will be presenting information about, you know, really intelligent stuff. October says global HR tech virtual symposium. They need a new branding campaign, which we'll be talking about those later in the show.

Chad (10m 15s):

Yeah, maybe just a copywriter, big shout out to Madison Butler. We dropped a podcast this week called stop hiring racists. She has been the target of some crazy shit because she's a black woman speaking her mind and some people just don't like that. But dude, you know, that whack Trumper chick who did like a 35 minute video calling her out as like a bully. Yup. Yup. She did a second one, a second 35 minutes.

Joel (10m 46s):

Oh come on.

Chad (11m 5s):

Who has time for that shit, dude? As if we weren't jealous enough that somebody had a hater that would commit almost an hour of trashing them.

Joel (10m 58s):

Like, come on, man, we've been doing this for 20 years and no one has done a YouTube trashing of me or you, or the both of us. So I'm, I'm totally jealous of Maddie B.

Chad (11m 16s):

So crazy. So anyway, so you can check that out. It's called Stop Hiring Racists on or wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah. Shout Out to, I'm going to say this incorrectly, rlasick5 left a review for us on, I think iTunes. It was, it was very complimentary, but had been in the business for 26 years and had just discovered the show? I mean, come on man. But we're glad that we can keep you laughing. We'll keep talking if you keep listening.

Joel (11m 47s):

Better, late than never kids. Better late than never. Got any more Shout Outs? Let's highlight the Chad and Cheese in your pocket. If you haven't yet folks.

Joel (12m 34s):

Yes. Text CC that's letter C and C two (833) 799-0321. Also shout out to Adzuna we talked about beer drop earlier. Adzuna is making it all possible. Helping us get the country drunk one drinker at a time. Thanks Adzuna. And lastly, a big Shout Out to Shaker Recruitment Marketing, is getting a new paint job, Shaker's helping us with it. And we really needed the help because after looking at the mockups, it is quite a bit nicer on the eyes than the blinding yellow that you get at this site right now. So big Shout Out to them for just being a awesome team, committing to a bunch of knuckleheads. Thank you I'm tearing up right now. Thank you Shaker Recruitment Marketing. I feel like we should give them a trophy or something like maybe an award. The Keegan, humanitarian award goes to. And that being said, great job by Shaker. Again, we haven't been doing events. They've been there. They've been there. We've been doing all these digital events. A couple of once again, October 7th, look on the socials. We've got the HR hackathon, HR tech investor panel, I'm going to be on with a bunch of different investors asking them why they pick the ones that they pick.

Joel (13m 13s):

Then October 27th at 2:00 PM Eastern time, it's Friendly Discourse round two, baby. The topic is remote workers deserve less. Jim will defend Facebook's docking employee pay when they move from away from Silicon Valley and citing of the cost of living adjustment while I call bullshit.

Joel (14m 8s):

So it should be a good time once again, October 27th. And if you're not getting our emails come to, all you gotta do is go into the contact form. Get into the email list or again, Chad and cheese in your pocket, text CC two (833) 799-0321. Powered by Emissary. Let's get to the new shall we? TOPICS! Textkernel, CareerBuilder. Holy hell. You did the shred on this one. What's going on?

Chad (14m 26s):

Okay. So quick question, can you imagine just how fucking happy Textkernel is right now to be away from the biggest dumpster fire in our industry?

Joel (14m 26s):

I don't know. I'd feel a little bit like a tennis ball with the way that they've been bounced around and now they get to go to what a private equity company, Main Capital Partners?

Chad (14m 35s):

But they're out of Amsterdam.

Joel (14m 49s):

They're nice. They're nice public equity company. No. And now I was trying to remember, did the Textkernel CEO founder leave when they sold Career Builder? Cause my memory serves that he was gone or that he bounced.

Chad (14m 56s):

Yeah, I can't, I can't remember. Are you talking about when they did the 60% buyer? Are you talking about the full buy?

Joel (15m 11s):

Yeah. Before the full deal, I feel like he left the company. So anyway, yeah. I mean, to me, this is more about Career Builder just being a shit show than it is, you know, Textkernel, although we've, we've heard more rumblings about Textkernel being a meh technology, since this deal happened.

Chad (15m 33s):

Well, the deal in itself is pretty much the same kind of deal they did with EMSI right. I mean, they said we're still friends. We're going to continue to work together and all of that shit. But if Textkernel and EMSI were so damn strategic, why sell them off? We've been talking about the garage sale that is Career Builder for a long time. And they probably rejoiced when someone came along with a check to take Textkernel away. And in our last week's show, we talked a lot about the smoke show that was Career Builders, published 300 million investment in technology, which to me, as I, as I thought about this a little more, just, it just feels like lip service to current customers in the hopes that they keep using Career Builder.

Joel (16m 3s):

They can keep milking this cow for as long as they can.

Joel (16m 38s):

While in the back room they're making deals selling off the actual properties because career builder is probably getting calls from people saying, yeah, this job posting thing is fun, but there's all this cool tech out there and we're looking at other options. And so they come out and say, wait a minute, we're going to dedicate 300 million over the next three years in hopes that you'd stay a customer for the next three years, that we can impress you with our tech savvy. And it just feels like it's a total play to make customers stay on for as long as possible. Yeah. And what they cited in the actual press releases, as we'd said on last week, I think it was last week's podcast and it was all just bullshit table stakes. Everybody's already doing that stuff. Good job Career Builder way to catch up. You're now at the starting line while everybody is on lap 500. I don't know. It's a freaking mirage. I think they're just changing from normal duct tape to sparkly duck tape. I mean, that's pretty much it. Yeah. And then quick reminder for those who don't think CareerBuilder is doing this a quick refresher here in August, CareerBuilder sold at stake in I'm going to mispronounce this a top three site in Greece, February offloaded it's candidate, background check division CBES to competitor accurate backgrounds.

Joel (17m 28s):

So they're selling the shop folks everything's for sale. It is. And you know, we've been hearing rumors of broad being, you know, not just on the blocks, but actually in the process of being sold. Yeah. That's not a surprise, but to be quite frank, the only thing I think that you could buy, not the tech, I mean, it's the portfolio. Well, right. We talked about a broad partnering with a couple of programmatic solutions, right? So instead of building it yourself, let's just partner with somebody until we sell this thing so that we can have programmatic, but they clearly would have built the thing themselves with the $300 million that they're posed to apparently investing in tech.

Joel (18m 15s):

Instead they're partnering with folks, which again, they're going to sell Broadbean the first, the first chance that they get. But I mean, this is a, this is, I don't want to call it a Trojan horse, but it's almost kind of like a Trojan horse. If you think of it from Joveo's standpoint, which is one of the programmatic partners. Yeah. Let's just start, you know, sucking some of those customers over here into the programmatic side of the house and when they do die and go away, you know, who are they going to turn to? Yeah. Who's the other, is it recruiting in Joveo? Yeah, I think there was a couple of them.

Chad (18m 46s):

Yeah. Joveo I'm sure is being pretty smart about the partnership and probably tracking things pretty well. Well, that being said, ICIMS says allow myself to reintroduce myself.

Joel (18m 54s):

Yeah. I loved your take of the midlife crisis for a tech company that's 20 years old.

Joel (19m 28s):

That was great. That was great. So new logo, it's very not, I mean the other one was like a big script I with iCIMS, like it's what the Sims is, but just the eyes there, they have the pretty blue that everyone's using the sort of the metaphorical person to sort of humanize the logo. They got a new website, which has lots of cool cloudy images, which is nice. What else did you take away from the redesign and the reboot? Yeah, I, it is a question between, you know, the midlife crisis, blue little red Corvette rebate brand versus something they should've done a long time ago.

Chad (19m 55s):

Overall, at this point they have 4,000 customers for God's sakes. You know, a lot, they had this really fun wispy logo that was going on and now they have a new one that is really solid foundation wise. That pretty much says, Hey, we're, we're here to kick your ass.

Joel (19m 55s):

So That was more like ad that's been driving a minivan for 10 years and the kids go to school. So he buys a Porsche and gets a new, it gets a new look, new hair, and some cool jeans.

Chad (20m 43s):

You've got to remember that until recently, most of the people in leadership have been there since the start. So most of this is really near and dear to them. And I mean, that's gotta be fucking hard, right? I mean, you're pushing away things that you created, you know, that's gotta be part of the heartstrings piece. So there's been some change in leadership. So I think overall from a brand standpoint, and then also a tech acquisition, they have Vista partners. I mean, do they are in the catbird seat when it comes to M and A.

Joel (20m 43s):

Yeah, they got a new friend who said, you know, dude, that minivan is comfy and a responsive and this, but this Porche is pretty nice, man. Let's take this out for a drive, take this out for a drive. I will say also I was, I was curious what would happen to the mascot? You know, Ike right? Ike, the bird which has been prominent for so long, I thought is Ike going to be around. So they have, Ike bot, did you see this? So their little bot is now Ike and Ike just kinda went from a fun bird you want to play with to sort of an angry bird that you don't want to like mess with.

Joel (21m 40s):

And I will say from a technology standpoint that the chat bot is a lot more of a tennis playing, you know, where you sorta click what you want to do. And it tells you like, so as opposed to an actual conversation. So I got to think if they're not looking at the conversational AI players to sort of upgrade that Ike bot, they might want to be doing that in the near future might be happening.

Chad (21m 41s):

I'd like to say that I is very near and dear to my heart, my little girl, Emma, who's not a little girl anymore, she's in fuckingg college. She has three upstairs and they probably span over the last maybe 15, 10, 12, 15 years going to events and getting the new Ike. Right? So yeah, I mean, I can understand the change, but this, I think is a good change.

Joel (22m 15s):

Yeah. My three year old has an Ike as well so it's near and dear to my heart, also. And hopefully they, hopefully they'll still have a few, a few stuffies and warm and fuzzies at the conference circuit when the world world opens back up again. Stay fun, ISIMs, stay fun. Stay fun, ISIMs, stay foolish. Speaking of foolish, just kidding, Phenom is in the news.

Chad (22m 28s):

So is, is this really a big story? I mean, because I haven't heard anything from Phenom in so long, it was like a knee jerk reaction for me to dig into this. And they got like $30 million, eight months ago. And then they like went silent. So, I mean, do you think this is something that's big?

Joel (22m 51s):

Don't think on its face is big, this isn't, you know, Glass Door getting acquired or anything. Well, big for them.

Joel (23m 21s):

Yeah. I guess another automation play, right? Like everybody wants to be soup to nuts, we're going to do it all. And, and this is another play toward that. So My Ally, for those who don't know, automates email based interview scheduling, which is obviously compliments, Phenoms functionality of their chat bot the email, they have SMS as well. So the scheduling time obviously helps automate that whole process. Now why they didn't go by our buddies at Good Time so we could have played some dynamite sound bites? Good time!

Joel (23m 57s):

Good time will get bought eventually and we'll be able to play the sound soundbite. But My Ally, apparently they claimed that they're doing scheduling of over 20,000 interviews per month. So they clearly know what they're doing, probably a lot of bootstrap stuff. It was on the cheap they needed, which you tout quite a bit. It's obviously a pain in the ass to schedule interviews. So not a huge deal. It's just another step that everyone's trying to be the all in one platform and a Phenom is in the game.

Chad (23m 57s):

Okay. So here's, here's my only comment when it comes to this, because Phenom has been talking about a single platform experience for a while. They have, haven't they?

Chad (24m 31s):

This is something I can get behind. There's no question. They they've said that they have this email capability, but was this just better than what they had? Were they white labeling somebody else? Which, I mean, overall, that's not a seat, single platform experience. What was the tech better? Was it an Aquahire? I mean, this, to me, it didn't make sense unless it was something they really just didn't do well? Yes. They were just really shitty at it. And they were like, Hey, we need to fill this hole. And it's a good time. Yeah.

Joel (25m 30s):

It smells a little bit like Outreach and Launchpad from a week ago or two weeks ago where, you know, you have these tech startups, you know, very few employees, you know, the economy has gone to shit. They it's hard to get customers or they're losing customers. So then it's like, what the hell do we do? Let's call up somebody who might write us a check. Bingo, bam. You know, you're sold and now you're an employee somewhere else and they just grab your tech. So yeah, scheduling I'm sure is a challenge that's not easy to replicate. And if these guys had it done right. And the price was right, you know, Phenom, why not? And I think we're going to continue seeing more of this, you know, companies with some VC, with the VC saying like, Hey, let's go spend because you know, there are a lot of companies on the clearance rack. I think we'll see a lot more of these deals through, you know, this year and next year.

Chad (25m 43s):

Those types of acquisitions are the ones that make me say, wait a minute. I thought you already did that shit? Were they bullshitting us. Was it Naper wear was it? Was it white labeling? What the fuck was it?

Joel (25m 57s):

A lot of companies put Heinz ketchup in the crock pot and call it chili, right? But it's not chili so they call it that, but it isn't, so they have to go with some actual actual beef and beans and onions and real ingredients. Touché. Touché And not pasta, you don't put noodles in your fucking chili, people. It's not how it's done. Ooh. Ooh. Okay. Let's take a break and we'll talk noodles maybe after a word from JobVite.

Jobvite (26m 17s):

Jobvite the leading end to end talent acquisition suite. Named a leader in ATS, recruitment, marketing, CRM, and onboarding on G2. Kim B says "Jobvite is a user friendly passionate enterprise team that takes care of you. Jolly good." Jeffrey R says, "candidates are constantly telling us we get it right compared to other orgs." Love that! Results driven by AI. Connections built by humans. Jobvite, learn how you can evolve your TA function at

Joel (26m 46s):

Jolly Good! Tally ho! Yeah. Chili's a win-win noodles. No noodles like just Texas Cincinnati. Like it's a win! Yeah. I, well, first I want to say thanks to Adam Gordon, because he thought tally ho was actually a much better word to use. And you had the Spock meme of Spock from Star Trek saying Tally Ho. That was pretty good.

Chad (27m 51s):

That's good shit. That's good shit.

Joel (27m 54s):

So LinkedIn ads stories.

Chad (27m 55s):

Okay. I've got, I just got to get this out. This is the first cat fishing starts. And now this. You guys, I mean, literally you gotta be fucking kidding me per a professional network, which is devolving. By the day I go back to our interview with Madison Butler who like, like we said, had like 40,000 followers or something like that. And she's totally getting hosed by racist comments on LinkedIn every day. We've talked about people using LinkedIn like Tinder, fake accounts, catfishing, dude, what the fuck is going on over there?

Joel (28m 3s):

Oh, my friend, my friend, the Koolaid is still is still tasty. Those Issues have nothing to do with the tech and the reach and all that good stuff. They have their problems. Do you think this is going to help stories? Define help? Is it going to help engagement? Yeah. I mean, look, there's a whole generation of kids and we're two old white guys, right? There's a generation of people that grew up with Snapchat and Instagram and now use Tik Tok.

Joel (28m 49s):

And if LinkedIn doesn't do things like add stories, they're going to be left behind. They're just going to be this site that is Facebook light. And no one's going to care from a younger generation standpoint. So I get that, I get that, you and I may not be that excited about it, but if I'm a 24 new grad, I'm probably posting stories more than I am, an article that I saw, you know, on ERE or something. So yeah, we can argue it. But I, I think that, you know, based on their, their early testing, they launched early in testing and France and Brazil and some other places. I mean, they've had millions of stories, tons of engagement. I mean, I, I'm keeping a look on it with, from my app and there's some decent engagement. I mean, it's a little bit Facebook and Instagramy. You like, people haven't quite figured out that it's sort of a professional spin on what stories should be. And I think they'll eventually get that, but I don't know how you could just rip into stories when I think a younger generation, that's how they think of social media.

Joel (29m 24s):

It's like, let's make cute videos with filters and give me dog ears and put stickers on my shit.

Chad (29m 28s):

This feels like they're just throwing shit at the wall though. I mean, they had the audio voice messaging. I mean, it's just like all the things that they're adding is like, they're just throwing shit at the wall to see what, and maybe it is, maybe this is like just a big R&D AB test who the fuck knows. Right. But overall, if they want to become a Facebook, right. The thing that really distinguishes them from Facebook is the workplace connections, the ability to expand from a career standpoint to do those different things.

Chad (30m 5s):


Joel (30m 25s):

And I understand that, you know, different generations do it different ways, but I really feel like that is devolving and it's becoming more like Facebook. And if it does become more like Facebook will the rules and just the way that people use it become more like Facebook? Yeah. I mean, ultimately, and Facebook did not invent stories, right? Facebook totally copied Snapchat, who popularized it, threw it on Instagram, which is a more appropriate platform. So to me, it's like, let's do what the young kids are doing and create, you know, create a technology otherwise we're going to left behind. So yeah, I guess you could poopoo stories, but I think they're here to stay. And I think that, you know, they'll probably skew younger, but yeah, I'm not gonna poop who it, you know, they have seven, 706 million users globally and they got to keep those users engaged.

Joel (31m 2s):

Right? And if engagement means cute little videos with filters and stickers, like that's what they're going to do. Whereas engagement, 10 years ago, five years ago was like, let's post articles and let's post comments and images. The new generation wants stories. So who are we to say no, by the way, this is only U S and Canada. I know we have a global audience. So unfortunately a lot of people won't know what we're talking about or care. So it's not quite global yet. I've been playing around with it.

Joel (31m 33s):

You get, you know, you get to see who's seen your stories. So there's some engagement there.

Chad (31m 37s):

Just like in Facebook.

Joel (31m 39s):

Yes, just like Facebook, dude, everybody copies every. Yeah, I get it. I get it. It's just, what do you want to be when you grow up? You know, do you want to be another Facebook or do you want to try to evolve into something that changes the industry?

Chad (31m 55s):

Like Tiktok again, we're talking about videos, but still we're talking about something.

Joel (-):

That's innovative.

Chad (32m 10s):

That's innovation, right. And this is not innovation. And again, I just don't think it embodies that of which a professional network should actually innovate. That's just, again, that's my opinion.

Joel (32m 10s):

Yeah. I mean, they, they put in a pool and you're not a pool guy, I guess, but this was not the only thing that they launched. They also launched some video messaging. So again, you know, they're FaceTiming as well, so that they're copying that stuff, which everyone is, but they've integrated. Interestingly, the video messaging integrates with BlueJeans, Zoom and Microsoft Teams, conveniently Slack was not on the list nor was Facebook at Work. So you're going to have to wait probably forever for that integration to happen.

Joel (32m 43s):

And they've also, put in a little bit of Google strategy by universalizing, if that's a word, a, their search results. So before, you know, you use keywords and you'd sort of see your network. Now it's going to pull on your network. It's going to pull in jobs. It's going to pull in stories. It's going to pull in like a lot of different stuff on your search results page. So yeah, we've got the full copy of Google, FaceTime and Snapchat and the latest LinkedIn update.

Joel (33m 13s):

So there you go, Chad.

Chad (33m 16s):

You talk about fucking spaghetti. Indeed is making a flex. I think the Syft acquisition is actually bearing fruit, at least in this iteration, because this looks, feels, tastes like Syft, which was the acquisition they had over in the UKYeah. Yeah. I like this a lot. This is a play on the gig economy. We've talked about players like Snag-a-job, Paired we've talked about, which is strictly sort of the, the dining service industry.

Joel (33m 49s):

Even remember a Talroo you had an app called Apply. Do you remember that? Probably not. That was a few years ago. So this is not a new idea, but for Indeed to do it, I think is smart. I think they can scale it. I think they have the name to make it work and the numbers. And obviously the, the workforce is going in this direction. They're going into more gigs. They're going into more right. Flexible opportunities where they can pick their hours. They can pick the companies.

Joel (34m 20s):

It's more of a marketplace idea. So I like it. I think it's one of the best things they've done. I don't love the name. Like why not just Flex by Indeed or something. And then eventually phase out the Indeed logo. They are taking this seriously because it's its own domain. And they also have a separate, I think LinkedIn account and social media accounts just for Flex. So this looks like this is a commitment that they're making to the future and in the gig economy. And it's also a nice play against Google who probably is not going to get in that game anytime soon.

Joel (34m 53s):

So it's hedging their bets on different things. Yeah. The domain is Indeed Flex by the way, so I don't think they're going to lose Indeed. Just let's dig into shit to Sift, real quick. So it's a temp job agency in the UK. They work through their temp staffing app, which means, and this is from the Sift site quote, "we cut out the middleman providing high quality, reliable staff to employers, and on demand shifts to job seekers, working in hospitality, events, industrial sectors..."

Joel (35m 24s):

Et cetera, et cetera. So that's what Flex feels like that, I'm not a hundred percent sure that it is, but it feels like it.

Chad (35m 34s):

They have points where you get confirmed for shifts, instantly, choose your pay, set your pay, and see which employers are matching your preferences. This sounds more like Tinder for jobs to me than anything, but the business model, let's talk about the business model and this is what I don't like. It seems as if they are taking the temp staffing model on, and they're just layering tech into it when the model actually needs to be blown up.

Chad (36m 4s):

It's kind of like we were just talking about with, with LinkedIn, you know, they're just adding shit that already exists when it really needs to be re invented. If you think about it, seriously, Indeed one, the market by entering into CPC, they changed what everybody else was doing. They didn't, they didn't try to do the exact same thing Monster was, they changed. They could more easily become the backbone of staffing agencies and become the platform for all staffing instead of competing with staffing.

Chad (36m 36s):

So, I mean, this isn't a Trojan horse model, which means it's not the Indeed way. Also what about Prime or Hire or whatever they're calling it this day, these days. It just, it seems like they're not doing business the way that they were geared. And they originally took over the market, which was via Trojan horse. This is not it. I mean, they're going directly head to head with other temp agencies. And that to me makes no sense, But we've also talked a lot about Indeed becoming a staffing agency.

Chad (37m 9s):

Do you think this is another step toward that, that reality? So let's, let's talk about Uber Works real quick, right? Who's down the drain. Uber Works came, came out and they tried this, this exact type of thing from what it feels like. And they went down the drain. Now they did try to pivot to do exactly what I'm talking about right out of the gate. Because if you think about it, actually paying all these people through your platform and doing all those different things and trying to manage the complexity of people, payments, taxes, all that shit makes no fucking sense, right?

Chad (37m 45s):

Unless you provide the tech to staffing companies and they are in charge of all of that. Now Uber Works try doing that, but they were way too late in the game. Right? I think if Indeed did that, and they became the tech, like the Intel inside of the staffing agencies, and they made it more efficient, which would increase the actual margins, let's say for staffing companies. And it was a software as a service, as opposed to a staffing agency that was just had better tech.

Chad (38m 17s):

I think that makes more sense. And it blows things up more for them. That is more of a Trojan horse indeed. Way of doing business.

Joel (38m 24s):

Yeah. So I, so the podcast I was on the Flex, Recruitment Flex, I think it was so interesting that we're talking about Flex anyway. So they were asking about Indeed's model. And, and I thought it's a little bit like Carvana. And I was talking to two Canadians who didn't know what Carvana was. So Carvana is basically like these big buildings that are glass and you see these cars on them, and then you buy the car online. You take this big coin, you put the coin in the slot, and then the car comes down from the building or the little skyscraper thing, and you get your car and you're on your way.

Joel (39m 1s):

Right? So they're still selling cars, but they're putting tech into it. They're trying to be cool about it. I'm like, pardon me? When you said that, like, do you think that indeed is sort of trying to create this hybrid model of yes we're staffing, but we're doing it in a cool new way so it doesn't feel like staffing.

Chad (39m 52s):

Yeah. But that's like a single transaction for a car that you'll do once every so many years. This is over, over and over and over and over transactions that are, that are associated to one person. And then you have to, then you have to pull the taxes for that. And you have to do all those things. And it's like, look, if you don't compete with staffing agencies, temp staffing agencies, or staffing agencies, then guess what you can perspectively be the tech that powers all of them, which means you get all the money. And I think this is the wrong choice.

Joel (39m 55s):

Well, clearly I need to stop being a Jay Leno, want to be in buying 20 cars a year. And maybe I can understand what you're talking about.

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Chad (41m 24s):

Drones! Bring in that drones. In your house.

Joel (41m 30s):

Yup. Amazon introduced this with their partnership with a Ring, I believe. Partnership? That's no partnership. They bought fucking Ring. Yeah, you're right. You're right. So this is an autonomous indoor security camera that flies around your house. Like in the house, not the parameter of the house, in the house.

Chad (41m 47s):

If Amazon doesn't integrate home alone into their marketing, this is a big mess.

Joel (41m 53s):

That's a good point. It's it's called the Always Home Cam. So they've already got Home, you know, in the name, this thing will be $250 and will be available in 2021. I'm guessing that it won't be in the, the Sowash household? I have been looking at Ring cameras, but it's just, it's one of those things where we already have so many devices, not to mention my phone follows me everywhere I go. It's funny.

Chad (42m 18s):

People are talking about like, all the bullshit conspiracy theories about, Oh my God. When we get the Corona virus, you know, shot, they're going to have trackers in it. And it's like, motherfucker, you already have a tracker. You carry your phone everywhere. So I have to think about, you know, does it even matter that there's a little bot that pops up at night and kind of rolls around, you know, my crib? Yeah. But it just seems weird, but I'm telling you now 250 bucks is fucking cheap.

Chad (43m 4s):

Now I know it's probably an add on to the entire Ring home security system, but that is cheap to have some hovering future tech shit in your house. I mean, that's fucking, that's, that's pretty cool and scary.

Joel (43m 34s):

I guess the fear is if it ever gets hacked, then someone knows exactly every corner of your house. If they want to do bad things to you. Do you ever feel like Amazon just does this stuff for press? Like they had the delivery delivery drone a few years ago. They got like on 60 Minutes, they had like the delivery blimp that sort of unleashed all of these drones. There were videos online about the Amazon blimp. And now we have the crazy ass drone, that roams around your house. If they're not doing it for that, they do get the press.

Chad (-):

Well. Yeah.

Chad (43m 35s):

But if you think about it, people already have cameras set up all over the inside of their house are ready. Right? They do? Yeah, so instead of doing that...

Joel (-):

You have camera's n your house?

Chad (43m 45s):

I don't. I said people, I'm not saying everybody, but those people would, I guarantee you, especially the tech, all those technophobes, they, they're not going to want it, but the technophiles will. Right. And there are plenty of them to spend 250 bucks to be able to get on your phone and show your buddy, Hey, watch this. I'm going to scare my wife. Yeah. I do like this for two things, one is long trips. Me personally, I hate when, when we're gone for a long trip and I'm like, shit.

Joel (44m 16s):

Okay. And, we're paranoid, right? It's like we locked the door in the garage. We like, we're super conscious when we go for long trips. So if this thing could sort of keep an eye on things while we're gone, like that would be something I would be down with. Everyday, I'd be a little bit weary. And the other thing in terms of, you know, the content of the show, this shit's coming to an office space near you. Like there's going to be companies that get this thing and they're going to be drones flying around the office, whether you're in, at work or not.

Joel (44m 56s):

Watching you, watching what's going on, they already watch your email and everything else. Why not just watch you with a drone flying around the office. So those are two things that I could see, definitely gaining traction with the drone.

Chad (45m 0s):

I need a beer.

Joel (45m 4s):

Make that too.

Chad (45m 4s):

We out.

Joel (45m 5s):

We out.

OUTRO (45m 38s):

Thank you for listening to, what's it called? The podcast with Chad, the Cheese. Brilliant. They talk about recruiting. They talk about technology, but most of all, they talk about nothing. Just a lot of Shout Outs of people, you don't even know and yet you're listening. It's incredible. And not one word about cheese, not one cheddar, blue, nacho, pepper jack, Swiss. So many cheeses and not one word. So weird. Any hoo be sure to subscribe today on iTunes, Spotify, Google play, or wherever you listen to your podcasts, that way you won't miss an episode. And while you're at it, visit just don't expect to find any recipes for grilled cheese. Is so weird. We out.


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