Indeed Terms, LinkedIn Ghosts, & Google Pitchforks
- Chad Sowash
- 9 hours ago
- 39 min read
Taco Bell, Low-T, Moral Bankruptcy and Indeed Bots
Grab a beer and put on your belts Chad and Joel are back to dissect the absolute circus that is the modern job market, with a heavy side of soccer rants and military absurdity. Â
Here is what you’re missing if you aren't listening: Â
Dirty Lettuce & Pop Stars: Joel miraculously survives Taco Bell’s dirty lettuce, while Chad gushes over America hosting a killer World Cup party. Plus, they break down why a 30-minute halftime show featuring Madonna, BTS, Shakira, and Justin Bieber was the only good part of an otherwise terrible final. Â
Juicing the Military: The boys tackle Pete Hegseth’s bizarre plan to test and boost testosterone levels across the entire armed forces because apparently, that’s where defense spending belongs. Â
The "Buy or Sell" Roast:
Signal Labs buys Brass Ring Â
Adzuna snaps up JobLift Â
Refer charges candidates
Indeed's Terrifying New T&Cs: Indeed updates its terms, essentially killing user privacy and unleashing rogue AI bots that apply to jobs on your behalf while washing their hands of any liability when things go off the rails. Â
Texas vs. LinkedIn Ghosts: Texas AG Ken Paxton launches a probe into LinkedIn's "ghost jobs." Is it genuine consumer protection, or just pure political theater from a guy running for governor? Â
Googlers Want a Prenup: 4,500 Google employees sign a petition demanding guaranteed severance before AI takes their jobs. Â
Tune in for the unfiltered recruiting commentary, stay for the terrible dad jokes. Â
PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION
Joel Cheesman (00:32.614)
Ohhhhhhh yeah. Does he really live here? I just thought he flew in for games. Hey kids, it's the Chad and Cheese Podcast. I'm your co-host, Joel "Dirty Lettuce" Cheeseman.
Chad Sowash (00:37.612)
Yeah, we do that.
Chad Sowash (00:44.508)
This is Chad "The US can throw a fucking party" Sowash.
Joel Cheesman (00:48.782)
on this episode of HR's Most Dangerous Podcast, indeed's terms, LinkedIn's ghosts and Googler's pitchforks, let's do this.
Chad Sowash (00:56.724)
Yeah.
Joel Cheesman (01:02.448)
Chad, I I'm happy to report, although you'll be surprised by this, that I I have not been infected by Taco Bell's dirty lettuce. I am diarrhea free. I'm diarrhea free so far. Summer. Knock on wood, knock on wood. They're promoting it as explosive diarrhea. So no no part of that. No part of that.
Chad Sowash (01:04.504)
Yes.
Chad Sowash (01:09.954)
I don't know how that's happened. I don't know how that's happened.
Well,
wow. Wow. Well, and it's a good thing that it's a good thing that the the rest of the world got out of the US for this epidemic. So that's that's pretty good.
Joel Cheesman (01:32.484)
Yeah, yeah, that's good that they got out before you know before they got infected by it. I think the Europeans had a good time. The South Americans, I think the world had a good time in America.
Chad Sowash (01:40.386)
No, dude. I can confidently say, take away all the politics, but I can confidently say the US is a great host. The amount of people posting all over the world about food, the stadiums, the bars, the people, I mean the halftime show, which we'll get to. but I mean the US knows how to throw a fucking party. And I and and I think that is one of the things that most
Joel Cheesman (01:56.624)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Chad Sowash (02:07.788)
at least the Europeans that I that that that I'm here with actually came away with it's like, Yeah, no, you you guys are pretty cool. You guys are pretty cool.
Joel Cheesman (02:14.615)
I I think and you and I have done our fair share of traveling, and ninety-nine percent of the time, people are cool. People are fine. It's our governments and our politicians. Like if we just got rid of that shit, we'd all get along and have a good time. But yeah, it's the politicians and the propaganda and all that other stuff. But yeah, I'm glad the world
Chad Sowash (02:23.476)
Mm. yeah, of course. They're fucking shitheads.
Yeah, yeah.
Joel Cheesman (02:36.249)
had good time. And of course, propaganda wise, you know, Trump had to get his dumbass in the the victory, the last picture there by by Spain. That was that was so ridiculous they tried to get him off, but he wasn't he wasn't going.
Chad Sowash (02:43.254)
Yes. Yes. That was a crop out kind of yes. of course not. Of course not. I mean, what it it's it's about me kind of thing. Well the the beautiful thing is next time we've got four years, it's gonna be Portugal, Spain, and Morocco gonna be able to see how they step up to the challenge. And we don't have to worry about that big fat orange piece of shit being in it any pictures whatsoever, which is awesome.
Joel Cheesman (02:57.977)
Mm-hmm.
Joel Cheesman (03:07.033)
Yeah, we have to worry about Spanish, Portuguese, just hot Moroccan, hot women just everywhere. I'm I'm looking forward to it. I'm looking forward to it. So what'd you think about the final? The third place game was bonkers. what what's your take on on all that?
Chad Sowash (03:15.98)
Welcome to my life. Welcome to my life.
Chad Sowash (03:24.358)
dude. So first off, both you and I got it wrong. England obviously got beat by Argentina. it's interesting 'cause South America plays a more physical game of football. it you take a look at European football, they they flop a lot more. They're trying to get fouls, those types of things. And you see a couple of times Messi, the little guy, almost did like some judo moves on some some some of the English guys who who are much bigger, by the way. And they just
Joel Cheesman (03:32.495)
Yeah.
Joel Cheesman (03:52.995)
Yeah.
Chad Sowash (03:54.37)
It was weird how they pushed England around. but it but if you take a look at one of the matches before with Parag Paraguay and France, that was a fucking bar fight. Everybody's talking about the England, Argentina. That was nothing compared to Paraguay, fucking France. But what'd you think about that one?
Joel Cheesman (04:03.814)
Mm-hmm.
Joel Cheesman (04:14.135)
About just the English, just the whole thing all of it.
Chad Sowash (04:16.32)
English Arg Ar Argentina.
Joel Cheesman (04:20.601)
Well, I so I wish I knew more about the sport. I I feel like I know a lot more than I used to. But the the the the commentary that I got from the sports from to the talking heads was that England scores and they basically go into prevent defense, if I'm making a football analogy. So that never works out in any sport. Like, don't get a lead and then just back up, like keep the fight going, keep on permanent offense. So and what I saw was basically
Chad Sowash (04:36.064)
Yes, yes, exactly, yes. Way too early too. Yeah. Yeah.
Joel Cheesman (04:48.683)
England backed up and Argentina taken shots. And eventually one of those shots, in this case, two shots, get through. So I think it's a lesson. I think that coach is probably done in Eng in England. I think is he a German? Which I think was which I think was controversial to begin with. So I think they're gonna have a coaching change, but I think I think England Spain would have been a better game. I was really disappointed in in Messi.
Chad Sowash (04:51.793)
yeah. Yeah.
Chad Sowash (05:00.184)
Mm possible. Yeah.
Chad Sowash (05:14.596)
Apparently. Hindsight twenty twenty.
Joel Cheesman (05:17.027)
Well, I was really disappointed in Messi. my wife and I were talking about this before, and and historically, the GOAT usually shows up in these games. Like, never bet against the goat. If Tom Brady's playing, if Mahomes is playing, and I'm making football, like U.S. football references, but I thought Messi will find a way. He's not going to let this kid, 19-year-old, come in and win this thing. Messi's gonna win it. And from what I could tell, they totally just shut him down. And the whole game looked like
Spain taking shots on Argentina. I I I don't know how it wasn't down on the Argentinian side offensively very often. It was kind of a bummer of a final.
Chad Sowash (05:50.786)
Yeah. Yeah. Well, it and I think I think this demonstrates just how good of a team Portugal is losing one nil and they lost it in the eighty-eighth or actually it's in ninety minute plus. so we were watching that, but but you take a look at Spain, they haven't lost in I I don't know how many fucking matches, and they are just their defense is so sticky, it's almost like rolling
Joel Cheesman (05:59.183)
Mm-hmm.
Joel Cheesman (06:17.273)
Mm-hmm.
Chad Sowash (06:20.156)
God, Richardson, Nolan Richardson, I it's Nolan Richardson, who used to be at Arkansas. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where it was like he they played 40 minutes of hell, where their defense was on you full court press the entire fucking time. That was Spain. That was Spain in every match. They cro they closed everybody down. And yeah, I mean, big kudos to them. yeah. That dude, that was that was good stuff. That was good stuff. That was good stuff.
Joel Cheesman (06:24.345)
Basketball? Yeah. Okay.
Yeah.
Joel Cheesman (06:41.957)
You're you're going deep with the Nolan Richardson reference, by the way. You're going real deep on people on that one. The the French the French English game was insane. Like that was so much fun to watch. I mean four nil and a half, yeah.
Chad Sowash (06:52.888)
Tail of two halves. I mean, here's the thing though. I I am I am watching this at the bar, at this bar, right? Watching it at the bar. And my buddies, and we're at halftime, they're up 4-0. England's up 4-0. My buddy looks around at me and he's smiling. He's like, yeah. They go as soon as Argent or as soon as France come out, they score two quick ones. He looks at me.
Joel Cheesman (07:02.82)
Uh-huh.
Joel Cheesman (07:17.349)
Uh-huh.
Chad Sowash (07:19.06)
All the English in the bar had to go on suicide watch. We had to take their belts, we had to take their shoelaces. You could see it in their eyes. They're like, Holy shit, they're gonna come back and win five four. obviously it didn't work out that way, but that was fucking crazy. Tale of two halves.
Joel Cheesman (07:37.37)
Yeah, it was I love the the panic button. when like, let's maybe we should get Bellingham in there. Maybe we should like make some adjustments to the team and get some of our stars in there. Yeah, probably a good idea. I d I will say I loved I love the young talent. I love Lamine and Bellingham and like the Mbappe still young, Holland. Like the game is in a good spot for for young talent. I think that's really, really exciting as someone that's fairly new, new to the sport.
Chad Sowash (07:47.288)
Yeah. Probably a good idea. Probably a good idea.
Chad Sowash (07:54.732)
yes.
Chad Sowash (07:58.926)
Mm-hmm.
Chad Sowash (08:06.838)
Agreed. A lot of great talent. I just I just hope, and it's one of those things that we say every four years as Americans, that we hope that we actually show up. Now this year we showed up, we got out of the groups, and then and then we had, you know, dipshit play political games and whatnot, got slaughtered by fucking Belgium. But hopefully we can start to pull some things together, because it it is such it it's a simple game, right? You take a look at you take a look at American football.
Joel Cheesman (08:14.617)
Mm-hmm.
Chad Sowash (08:36.63)
It is so complex. And trying to trying to explain it to my European friends here who really they are really interested, right? Because many of them like rugby and this is ki somewhat like rugby, but it is so much more complex than any sport that they play at all. Right. so something that's simple, like like like soccer slash, you know, European football, to me is just it it's just fun. It really is.
Joel Cheesman (08:36.986)
Mm-hmm.
Joel Cheesman (08:47.139)
Uh-huh.
Joel Cheesman (08:54.179)
Yeah.
Joel Cheesman (09:04.953)
Yeah. Yeah. I I I don't know if it'll ever be what it is in Europe or South America as it is in America or the US. I think the scoring is always gonna be an issue. just speaking as an American. I think they need to like widen the goal to maybe the whole toll baseline size.
Chad Sowash (09:17.531)
yeah.
No, they need to they need to change the offsides. I also think they should take some some lessons from from basketball and have the over and back instead of allowing them to go all the way back to the goalie and then back and all the way back to the goalie. I mean, they did bullshit. I mean, there's no reason for that. So over and back, play that over and back game. I mean, there's some things they can they can do to speed the game up. Number one, number two, get more scores.
Joel Cheesman (09:26.371)
Yeah, I've heard that. Yep.
Joel Cheesman (09:33.273)
Yeah.
Joel Cheesman (09:42.554)
Yeah. Well now we can get to the real football, American football, which I'm not too upset about. And a little teaser here, little teaser here. Our our friends at Factory Fix have they've upped for another year of fantasy football. So get ready for that, kids. More on that later. One thing they might need in soccer, probably not, is more more testosterone, Chad. I'm curious. I don't know. I know you keep track of American news. Pete Heggseth is calling for
Chad Sowash (09:45.794)
Yes. Come on, Bucks. Come on, Buckeyes.
Chad Sowash (09:56.482)
Yes!
Chad Sowash (10:05.218)
Yo geez.
Joel Cheesman (10:11.983)
Testosterone testing for troops and I guess supplementing if they're low T. I just as a veteran, personally I didn't know a lot of young males when I was young that needed more testosterone. But what's your take on the army's desire to juice up the pr the troops?
Chad Sowash (10:17.912)
Mm-hmm.
Chad Sowash (10:30.072)
I think this says more about Peak Heg Seth than it does about the actual troops themselves. I was in for 20 years. you it I mean, there there's no reason for any of this. To be able to test everybody, if you had low T, you could actually go to the TMC by yourself and actually get it tested if you wanted to. Okay. If you thought there was a problem, you could get that done. To be able to do it force-wide is one of the dumbest.
Joel Cheesman (10:35.023)
Yeah.
Joel Cheesman (10:51.555)
Uh-huh.
Chad Sowash (11:00.792)
F it's it's fraud, waste, and abuse. I almost want to ask, did they buy stock in these testing companies prior? Cause that's all this fucking administration does. It forces things to happen after they've already bought, like, you know, pieces of companies or they bought stock in companies. So I don't know. It's stupid. These kids have so much testosterone, it's like coming out of their pores.
Joel Cheesman (11:18.745)
Yeah.
Joel Cheesman (11:25.465)
Yeah. And do they do they force women to take testosterone? I'm just like I don't know or is it a move to force women out of the military service?
Chad Sowash (11:34.686)
I I don't think it's I don't think it's that. No, I don't think I don't think that has anything to do with it. But I mean, this this is gender affirming treatment, which is something that Republicans are so against, right? And it's like, well, well, wait a minute. I thought you were against this kind of shit. Anyway, dumb. It's a waste of cash. It's a waste of time. And what we should be focusing on is how we stop.
Joel Cheesman (11:37.465)
No? Okay.
Joel Cheesman (11:44.079)
Right.
Yeah.
Chad Sowash (12:01.134)
creating stupid wars so that we kill these kids instead of just making sure that their testosterone is where it should be.
Joel Cheesman (12:06.913)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You want to do some shout outs?
Chad Sowash (12:10.35)
Please. Yes. Dude, I've gotta give this shirt. sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. Yes.
Joel Cheesman (12:13.871)
Chad, this shout out, hold on, hold on. This shout outs, the shout outs today are sponsored by free t-shirts, Chad. That's right. Thanks to Aaron App, you know, the company behind all the red shoes you're seeing on social media. you're you're hearing the Chad and Cheese, but you're also wearing the Chad and Cheese. And what's better than that? But if you want that free t shirt sponsored by Aaron, you got to go to Chadcheese.com slash free to get yours. Go there today. What's your shout out, Chad?
Chad Sowash (12:20.246)
Air that!
Chad Sowash (12:41.134)
Shoutouts to halftime show. it had Madonna, BTS, Shakira, and Justin Bieber. And it's not the shout-out that you probably think it is, kids out there. I'm going to say this is the shout out for all of the Europeans who were they they weren't sure. They were like, Look, our our halftime is 15 to 20 minutes. You're extending this to 30 minutes plus. This is not how the game is played. And to be quite frank, it was the best thing that happened during that match.
Joel Cheesman (12:50.393)
Okay.
Joel Cheesman (13:02.328)
Uh-huh.
Chad Sowash (13:11.274)
And every single European that I talked to after, all my friends were like, that was a great fucking show. And I said, you know what? The US does well. Pop culture, they can throw a fucking party. And that's exactly what that was. So, you know, shout out to Halftime Show. yes, the final was pure shit. And the only thing that was good was the halftime show.
Joel Cheesman (13:16.132)
Mm-hmm.
Joel Cheesman (13:36.109)
All right. Daft time show nice. Very, very nice. By the way, Chad, a quick history lesson.
You aren't you aren't ready for this. Do you know do you know when halftime shows, particularly the Super Bowl, which is where the halftime show really took anot went to another level? Do you know the event that made the halftime show what it is today?
Chad Sowash (13:49.42)
yeah.
Chad Sowash (13:57.348)
Curling. I I'm I don't know. Yes.
Joel Cheesman (13:58.862)
No, there was you'll remember this now. There halftime shows used to be the band, flag twirlers, like a traditional almost high school halftime. Back in I think nine nineteen ninety or ninety one, do you remember the show Living Color? So L Living Color, great show, Jim Carrey, Wayman Wayne's brothers, anyone our age will know the show. But they they promoted during the halftime show.
Chad Sowash (14:05.266)
yeah.
Chad Sowash (14:11.171)
Mm-hmm.
yeah. Yeah yeah. Yeah.
Chad Sowash (14:19.958)
Amazing. yeah. Wayne's brothers were amazing.
Joel Cheesman (14:27.247)
Come to Fox and watch in Living Color and we're gonna have our like our own thing during the halftime show. So at on that game, everyone tuned into Fox and watched Living Color. And the time was the time of the halftime, and they did the bits and everything. And then, like, okay, now you can go back to the game. The Super Bowl was so mad about that. They were like, we can't give anyone a reason to leave the show. And I believe Michael Jackson was the next year's performer, which of course no one was leaving that.
Chad Sowash (14:30.286)
Yeah.
Chad Sowash (14:43.128)
Yeah. Smart. Yeah. Yeah.
Chad Sowash (14:56.118)
No. Nope. Nope. That's a good one.
Joel Cheesman (14:56.643)
that that performance. So little history lesson for the kids out there. we have Jim Carrey and and Damon Wayans to thank for for the halftime shows that we have today. and speaking of legendary comics and let's go to legendary athletes. Chad, I was once an athlete. It's hard to tell now but when I was in high school we had we had we had mile times for for sports I played and I would run a mile
Chad Sowash (15:05.528)
Very nice.
Chad Sowash (15:09.976)
Yes.
Chad Sowash (15:14.498)
Me? What?
Taco eating.
Chad Sowash (15:22.91)
Yeah.
Joel Cheesman (15:26.521)
I don't remember my time, but I remember thinking if if someone runs a four minute or less mile, it's insane. Like it is incredibly fast. And the record was broken recently. And if I was to tell you that the record for the mile was broken, would you have guessed it was a Scottish lad that did it? Well, surprise, surprise, surprise. Is if Scotland needed another reason to boast about their greatness. a 28-year-old Brit
Chad Sowash (15:38.424)
Yes.
Chad Sowash (15:45.367)
No.
Joel Cheesman (15:55.29)
Named Josh Kerr. A 27-year-old broke the record for fastest mile time at three minutes 42 seconds.66. and and how did he celebrate breaking the record, Chad? Well, like a true Scott. He had a beer. He had a beer and a 5 a.m. run. he didn't he didn't mention which beer, but I'm guessing it was a tenants, maybe chased with an iron brew. So shout out to Josh.
Chad Sowash (16:03.466)
Awesome. He blew it away.
Taco Bell.
Chad Sowash (16:13.922)
Ha ha ha.
Chad Sowash (16:20.739)
Yes.
Joel Cheesman (16:23.237)
Kerr or Kerr, I don't know how the Scots pronounce it, but very impressive to break the mile record, which it stood for about for three decades practically. So very, very, very cool. If only we could write his back to our travels, traveling would be would be a lot more fun. That's right, that's right.
Chad Sowash (16:28.29)
That it was amazing to watch too, yes. Yeah. It was amazing to watch. Yeah, it was amazing to watch.
Chad Sowash (16:39.588)
He could not carry you, Joel. That's all I gotta say. He's a skinny motherfucker. where are we going? I'm going to the beach is where I'm going. I'm going to be enjoying this wonderful ocean that I have here. We're we're gonna be going to wreckfest later this year. and and thanks again to Shaker, who who knows might be on stage this year. You never know. Disrupt stage in Nashville might happen. but until then, yeah, but until then.
Joel Cheesman (16:53.817)
Mm-hmm.
Joel Cheesman (17:06.383)
Such a tease.
Chad Sowash (17:11.0)
I don't want to think leaving this beach, my friend. I really don't.
Joel Cheesman (17:13.721)
I don't I don't blame ya. I don't blame ya. I don't blame ya. Let's get to some topics, shall we?
Chad Sowash (17:17.868)
Okay.
Joel Cheesman (17:23.279)
Chad, are you ready for a little buy or sell? Jesus, we haven't done some buy or sell in quite a while. So I'm pretty excited about it. So if you forget, kids, because we haven't, Chad and I talk about some new startups money being made up being spent, and then and then we either buy or sell the news. Let's get to the first story. Signal Labs, who has acquired ATS old timer brass ring?
Chad Sowash (17:25.986)
Yes. Yes. I love it. I love it. Ooh, so excited. So excited.
Joel Cheesman (17:52.954)
Just three months after emerging from stealth status. Financial terms were not disclosed. in case you missed it, Signal Labs promotes itself as an AI driven solution focused on enterprise recruiting. While Brass Ring has more than 25 years experience, they're basically the commercial version of us, experience wise, and still serves a good number of Fortune 500 employers. Chad, buy or sell the brass ring acquisition.
Chad Sowash (17:54.148)
Signal.
Chad Sowash (18:21.518)
Let's be click clear, kids. Brass ring is an OG. That's right. Launched in nineteen ninety-nine as a job fare platform, kind of a job board thingy. It morphed into an applicant tracking system, was acquired by Konexa, which was then acquired by IBM, and now it was broken off and sold to Signal Lags. Two hundred or I'm sorry, three hundred and fifty million candidates in 150 million countries.
Joel Cheesman (18:43.013)
Signal lab.
Chad Sowash (18:50.552)
This is a data and signal play. And one that indeed, if they were listening to you and your prediction, Joel, they should have snapped up. But once again, a company from the outside the industry buying up unstructured data, which is really just garbage data and faint signals. Plus, when you add the multitude of nuances that 150 plus countries bring to the this ball of nonsense,
Joel Cheesman (19:18.274)
Uh-huh.
Chad Sowash (19:20.086)
I love ya, brass ring. I rememb. I remember ya during the glory days, but I can't sell this things fast enough. I can't sell it fast enough.
Joel Cheesman (19:26.255)
The c
Joel Cheesman (19:33.551)
Yeah, that we're t we we forget more about fucking brass ring than we remember about brass ring. Remember the Kinex acquisition in two thousand six for like a hundred and fifteen million dollars. That was huge at the time. yeah, I don't know if this is this is like make brass ring great again can campaign. I don't know. I mean, tell me how the Chee Cheese reboot is doing and I'll tell you how the how this deal is gonna go. It is really weird.
Chad Sowash (19:38.082)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah. Yeah.
It was, yeah. For an ATS.
Chad Sowash (19:53.943)
no.
Yeah.
Joel Cheesman (20:02.916)
This company was in like they just came out of nowhere three months ago to buy this well-known property, which is still used by a lot of companies. Like they just don't, you don't leave your ATS. A lot of companies don't, and these guys haven't. So a little bit of digging into this. LightSpeed Ventures or Venture Partners basically is backing Signal Labs. If you go dig into venture partners or Lightspeed Venture, they have eightfold.
Chad Sowash (20:08.056)
Yeah.
Chad Sowash (20:14.466)
Which is so surprising. It's so surprising.
Chad Sowash (20:21.86)
Mm.
Joel Cheesman (20:30.799)
They have Personio, and then they have a ton of other companies that you your everyone knows. Really well-known tech companies. So was someone directing this as we need to like plug in AI into an existing applicant tracking system or something that has a ton of data, and they went shopping and found out Brashring was for sale, which let's be honest, it's been for sale forever. and people are willing, willing to do. So it's like,
Chad Sowash (20:52.772)
Mm.
god, yeah.
Joel Cheesman (20:59.779)
Venture backed, lot of money, AI. Let's buy this old property. Let's, you know, put a new roof on it. Let's add a room, whatever. And then like let's plug our plug the current clients into it. I mean, it's a long shot to take this old property and fix it up. so I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna sell it for business reasons, but for straight entertainment value.
Chad Sowash (21:16.92)
No way now. Yeah.
Joel Cheesman (21:27.619)
my god, I'm buying the hell out of this. Can these guys turn brass ring around and make it into an AI juggernaut? Like I I don't know. I don't know. But it's it's gonna be a hell of a lot of fun to watch. All right, that's our first buyer. So let's get to our second story here. Adzuna has acquired the assets of JobLift, a German based employment site. in addition to buying all of JobLyft's stuff, the brand, the sales team, the tech, etc.
Chad Sowash (21:30.242)
Ha ha ha!
No, no.
Okay.
Chad Sowash (21:48.578)
Okay.
Joel Cheesman (21:56.132)
Joblift.de will continue to operate in Germany as it currently is. Chad at Zuna buys a German job site. Is it Wunderbar oder Scheißen?
Chad Sowash (22:08.268)
I think it feels like Ad Zuna bought a decade-old German company brand and domain on the cheap. These guys obviously, I don't know what's called in German, but bankruptcy. Ad Zuna has already inserted their tech into JobLift. something they failed to do with their past acquisitions, Trovoit and Metula. Jobs acquisitions earlier this year was
Those were kind of flaky, but this one, this one keeps the German brand. It's under the j more of a fluid experience. So it it it just makes sense and and unlike the other ones. it's w reported they have also kept some of the sales customer service person, people have used SEB, which provides an easy transition for any paying customer.
Joel Cheesman (22:47.129)
Mm-hmm.
Chad Sowash (23:02.55)
And a lesson we've learned from Rika and Levin over at House of HR in Europe. A house of brands is stronger than a single branded house. It's a buy from me. It's a buy. It's a buy.
Joel Cheesman (23:08.933)
Mm-hmm.
Joel Cheesman (23:14.123)
my. my.
Joel Cheesman (23:20.965)
interesting, interesting take. So a little bit of macro here. Germany's economy has been sort of kapoot, if if I'm using some German Germanisms. 2022 or three, they were in recession last couple years. They've since come out of it in large part because they're quote unquote building the Europeans most lethal army by like twenty thirty nine or something. So
Chad Sowash (23:30.745)
Ha.
Joel Cheesman (23:48.058)
Good news that the Germans are rearming, at least for the for the economy, because they are building building jobs again, while the the Chinese destroy the the strong German car industry. But that's a different that's a different show or different interview. let's go to Ad Zuna real quick. so Ad Zuna has been around for a while. Really strong partnership with the UK government's Department of Work and Pensions. Adzuna had powered their job site for quite a while. and
Chad Sowash (23:52.014)
Thanks, Trump.
Chad Sowash (23:59.512)
Mm. Yes.
Joel Cheesman (24:17.017)
The government ended that contract recently. So now you have job or you now have Adzuna with a lot of eyeballs that used to come to the site that no longer will be coming to the site. So what do you do in that case? You buy companies and you go shopping for sales, maybe. the the headcount of JobLift has been slowly decreasing over the years. They do claim five million users on the site per month. They've been around since 2015.
Little long in the tooth, probably a couple tough years in Germany selling this thing, looking for a buyer. And Adzuna is looking to buy some companies. So this was a match made in heaven. However, do two companies on hard times make for one company with good times. I'm a little bit skeptical, if you will, Chad. So I'm going to sell this one. I'm gonna sell this one. All right, let's go to our final.
Chad Sowash (25:11.565)
Yeah.
Joel Cheesman (25:16.141)
Story and buyer so refer, a talent marketplace, has raised $7.5 million in a seed round. The startup's model reverses the economics of a traditional recruitment agency, which generally receives a fee from the employer. How are they flipping it, you ask? Well, Chad, Refer has job seekers pay a 20% fee of their first month's salary upon successful placement.
Chad Sowash (25:16.952)
There we go. There we go. Mm.
Chad Sowash (25:32.494)
Mm-hmm.
Joel Cheesman (25:43.225)
While employers pay zero. Chad, are you ready to refer your network to refer? Or if it ain't broke, why the hell are they fixing it? Buy or sell, refer.
Chad Sowash (25:51.372)
Mm.
Okay, so I want to pitch this company to you like pitching investors. You cool with that? You cool? You good? Okay, okay, okay. Okay, here we go. Okay, so the job market is abysmal. Worse in decades. People are starving, literally starving for a job right now. Today, a major portion of the population are heavily, heavily in college debt.
Joel Cheesman (26:01.201)
Bring it. Bring it. Pitch it to me. Yep.
Chad Sowash (26:18.914)
Don't even own a car. And hell, many of them are still living in their mom and dad's basement. So let's charge that cohort for services instead of the old company model. End scene. what a fuck, what a fucked up pitch. What a fucked up pitch. It the worst part, the worst part is that Peterson Ventures and NFX heard that pitch and said, Yeah, I want to fund that. So refer.
Joel Cheesman (26:20.422)
Mm-hmm.
Joel Cheesman (26:38.278)
Uh-huh.
Chad Sowash (26:46.606)
Peterson Ventures and NFX are saying that instead of charging companies where we know the margins are at all time highs, no, they've chosen to become the predatory the predatory in flat out morally bankrupt pieces of shit. This is one of the easiest sales I've ever had. Fuck these guys.
Joel Cheesman (26:48.761)
Mm-hmm.
Joel Cheesman (27:13.83)
So you're telling me there's a chance. You're telling me there's a chance. Yeah. Pure the pure evil of making money off of job seekers is always fun. So so let's do the math here and keep it simple. If you get a job through this service that pays you a hundred and twenty thousand dollars a year, they take your first month, twenty percent of that. So in this case, you owe refer two thousand dollars. So it's not like you owe them a ton of money on a fairly good job.
Chad Sowash (27:18.404)
For what?
Chad Sowash (27:33.988)
Twenty percent. Yep.
Chad Sowash (27:41.892)
Already in debt.
Joel Cheesman (27:44.315)
Well, here's the thing. Like, okay. So you and I have been doing this for a long time. Businesses that are based on employees paying you money have a really shitty track record. So let's see if this thing is gonna work. All right. If I'm an employer, okay, great. It's free to be on this thing, look at employ like I owe nothing. Okay. So now now you're gonna get like the shittiest employers on the planet.
Come out of the woodwork, probably try to scam these people because they know they're willing to pay money. So I don't know how that's going to work. But like the the like really good employers, I have a hard time saying that they're going to flock to this thing. Now the job seekers, okay, who's going to flock to this thing? The best of the best? The the cream of the crop chat? Is that who's going to flood this site with candidates? No. If you're the best of the best, getting sourced, getting recruited, like you're not on this site. So now you have.
Chad Sowash (28:30.57)
No. No.
It's not what they want. Yeah.
Joel Cheesman (28:42.672)
Fairly shitty employers recruiting fairly shitty candidates. are they six figure jobs? Probably not. Okay. So now you're hiring forty, fifty, sixty thousand dollar people. So now your fee is not the two thousand dollars, it's like five hundred dollars. And a lot of these people that five hundred dollars is a ton of money. so look, long story short.
History says this thing is doomed. I agree it's doomed. I can't believe they got seven point five in a seed round. Whatever pitch they had, they should like go to another industry and just like sell shit because that was one hell of a model. But I give this about as much chance as
Chad Sowash (29:20.846)
Yeah.
Ha ha ha.
Joel Cheesman (29:26.766)
All right, kids, that is another round of buy or sell. That was fun. We haven't done that in a while. Chat is on empty, and I need I need to take a breath here. We will be right back, kids. If you haven't subscribed to our shit, what are you doing? your platform podcast platform of choice, hit the subscribe button, share us with your friends, comment, leave us a review, whatever. We will be right back.
Chad Sowash (29:30.06)
Tudo.
need another beer, but I got subjective. Yeah.
Chad Sowash (29:48.452)
Here we are.
Joel Cheesman (29:58.823)
Chad, this next segment is sponsored by Free Bourbon. Who doesn't love, who doesn't love some chicken cock? You know what I'm saying? Who doesn't love a little chicken cock?
Chad Sowash (30:00.558)
Yes.
Ooh.
Chad Sowash (30:07.721)
yeah, I
Joel Cheesman (30:12.986)
That's right. That's right, Steven. And Proven Base, our friends at Proven Base are making miracles happen. We're sending two bottles of chicken cock to some lucky listeners. Thanks to Proven Base. But miracles only happen if you play the game, kids. Head out to Chadcheese.com slash free and finally let your liver know who's boss. Finally let that pesky liver know who's boss. All right, Chad, let's get back to the news. Indeed.
Chad Sowash (30:13.924)
Steven does. Stephen does.
Chad Sowash (30:22.872)
Who?
Chad Sowash (30:40.728)
Mm.
Joel Cheesman (30:40.878)
Indeed.com, if you don't know, has updated its terms of service, setting out how its AI products recommend job jobs, prepare applications, source candidates, score applicants, and conduct follow-up screening covering both Career Scout for job seekers and talent scout for employers. But with most terms and conditions, Chad, the devil is in the details. So we want to know was Satan, was Satan in the fabric of the new terms of service at Indeed?
Chad Sowash (31:09.54)
yes. Of course. Of course it was. Of course it was. Dude, I gotta say that most of the time it feels like we're the only voices in the space speaking out against Indeed's bull bullshit, but not this week. Not this week. we had Mike Wood wrote a great piece about Indeed's new terms of services. and I gotta say, he hits Indeed's most glaringly bullshit effort head on.
Joel Cheesman (31:21.702)
Mm-hmm.
Chad Sowash (31:37.614)
By outlining that Indeed's TNC's states flatly that Indeed does not and will not serve as an agent or decision maker for any employer or job seeker, and that it rejects any delegation of decision making authority. End quote. So I'm I'm sure we all understand that just announcing that indeed.
Will not serve as an agent of decision maker or whatever for employer or job seeker means absolutely fucking nothing. As we all know, Indeed's new AI agentic strategy can already shape decisions, which can be just as harmful as making them. So simply put, it's about what they do, not what they say. And Indeed has bots applying for jobs, not just serving up relevant jobs.
Actually applying for jobs. Now, next we talk about those bots. When bots apply for the job seeker by proxy, they may trigger a bill a billable event. What does that mean? It basic it's basically an evolution of how PPC and PPA were, right? Pay-per-click and paper application. When a human clicked or applied to a job, they could most likely or would incur a charge to the hiring company per click.
Joel Cheesman (32:50.01)
Mm-hmm.
Chad Sowash (33:01.996)
Or per app. Thanks, Steven. Stefan. Now, it's the automated version. So instead of a human doing it, it's actually a bot who's doing all this stuff. So whenever Indeed needs to ratchet up their revenues, it's very simple. Instead of trying to nudge humans, all they have to do is ratchet up the job, the the actual bots to apply.
Joel Cheesman (33:29.862)
Mm-hmm.
Chad Sowash (33:30.538)
And or just raise the price of the the click or the bot. so at the end of the day, I mean there are two big issues that Mike points out. Indeed's absolution. They believe that the new T's and Cs will make them immune from forthcoming lawsuits. And number two, Indeed's monetization, bot clicks, bot apps. I mean, remember when all of this used to be fraud? We used to call this click fraud. This was this was
Joel Cheesman (33:32.72)
Yeah.
Joel Cheesman (33:53.787)
Mm-hmm.
Joel Cheesman (33:59.153)
They still call it click fraud. Yeah, now it's apply fraud or something. Yeah.
Chad Sowash (34:01.188)
they do. okay. Well they say so again, thanks to Mike, Mike Wood for calling this out. Keep up the good work, man. And it just feels good that somebody else is calling indeed shit out instead of putting on the knee pads and kissing the ring.
Joel Cheesman (34:12.091)
Yeah.
Joel Cheesman (34:26.832)
So I read primarily two things in Indeed's new terms of service. Number one, privacy is dead. And number two, free is officially dead at Indeed. let's let's take both of these one at time. Privacy, I think, is the most important one because we know Indeed has been moving away from free for quite a while.
But what they are what they outline in this new terms of service for the for the job seeker is really s is pretty scary. Like when a company does a background check, they look into your public records. Did you commit a crime? What like what's publicly available? Now indeed is saying we're going to take everything that happens to you in a job search and we're going to document it.
So did you interview? Did you were you contacted? Did you did you withdraw your application? Were you rejected for an offer? All these things that happened sort of under the cover of me and a company talking are now potentially going to be available to every company throughout your entire career because of Indeed. And their terms of service says, you know what, you're agreeing to do that. That's pretty scary as a job seeker. I mean, shit.
Chad Sowash (35:42.424)
Okay.
Joel Cheesman (35:46.639)
I might do in my twenties if that carries with me, you know, my 30s, 40s, 50s, it it's irrelevant, but it's still gonna count. And if the algorithm is saying, you know what, this person shouldn't even be in the mix. I think that's a real dangerous precedent to set for the job seeker. you talk about new revenue models. So if I have an agent now applying, I I think they've also, from a payment side, they've said, okay, job seeker, we're gonna create new ways to
get money out of you. And we just ripped up refer for charging money to job seekers. LinkedIn's been doing it effectively for a while, saying, hey, if you're if you pay for job seeker tools, you get all these special things. Now indeed is basically saying we're laying the groundwork for you as a job seeker to pay us a monthly fee and we will just go apply to jobs for you. Well that's that's nice. Okay. A lot of people will pay for that about twenty percent, which is a lot of money for them. The employer side, same thing. I mean
Chad Sowash (36:22.211)
Yes.
Chad Sowash (36:35.043)
Yes.
Yeah.
Joel Cheesman (36:46.096)
Posting is no longer free. Now interviewing will be automated, pre-screening stuff that'll be automated. I mean, I think we talked, I think, last week about Indeed and people being upset with the the monet how we're paying for this. We're not coming up in searches, where's our brand, et cetera? And I said at the time Indeed doesn't care because what they're moving toward is an all agent transaction.
Chad Sowash (37:05.688)
Right. Mm-hmm.
Joel Cheesman (37:13.966)
And these terms of service really underscore where Indeed is going. So again, privacy is dead and free is dead at Indeed. And these terms of service to me underscore that, underscore that reality.
Chad Sowash (37:27.94)
Yeah, I one of the things that that we talked about last week too were disposition codes and their signals, right? And a lot of these signals are just they're they're not even fuzzy. They are at clearest muddy, right? They're they're muddy signals. And indeed, is training off of all of these muddy signals because you've got to remember humans are making these decisions. Humans don't have time. Well, first and foremost.
Joel Cheesman (37:33.691)
Mm-hmm.
Joel Cheesman (37:42.384)
Mm-hmm.
Chad Sowash (37:55.406)
Humans are creating these job descriptions, which are shit. So it's garbage in, garbage out. Then not to mention they don't have the capacity to actually have time to go through and find the best candidate. So even if you were the best candidate, you might not be found because there's not the capacity for somebody to actually find you within the actual system itself because they're too fucking busy, right? In this case.
Joel Cheesman (37:58.374)
Mm-hmm.
Joel Cheesman (38:15.728)
Yeah. Yeah.
Chad Sowash (38:20.138)
If the bots are making the decisions, which they're saying they're not, but let's say they're shaping the decisions, they're still learning off those this the decisions that they're they're shaping themselves. They are getting they're getting high on their own supply. And that is just going to make this really fucking bad for any company and any job seeker. And when they start going through their audit process and they say, Well, you know, we we're we don't
Joel Cheesman (38:30.726)
Mm-hmm.
Joel Cheesman (38:43.543)
Mm-hmm.
Chad Sowash (38:48.728)
We have T's and C's, they've signed these things. it's not us. It's not on us. It's on them. No, the system, how the system works, it's on you. So at the end of the day, this is this is not gonna end well. It really isn't.
Joel Cheesman (38:58.885)
Mm-hmm.
Joel Cheesman (39:02.501)
Yeah.
And and you better check yourself before you wreck yourself, Chad. look, I mean, do job seekers that have agents do they get preferential treatment in applying? if I pay more, do I get a better chance? So, like, there's so many ways to algorithmically play this and get more money out of out of their out of their users. the other thing that I think is gonna be a growing concern, especially for employers, is
Chad Sowash (39:12.226)
Okay, Marco.
Yes, of course.
Chad Sowash (39:24.526)
Yeah. Yeah.
Joel Cheesman (39:33.314)
Agents that go off the reservation, that agents that just go rogue. And stories are starting to come out about agents that just make up shit, lose their mind, do crazy stuff. And for a lot of employers, that puts you at risk. EEOC risk, all kinds of stuff, right? Like if you don't know what your agents are saying to applicants, all that stuff is tracked. It can be documented. Like that's super risky for employers as as this agent world.
Chad Sowash (39:36.46)
yes.
Joel Cheesman (40:03.075)
unfolds and that's a concern as well.
Chad Sowash (40:04.076)
Yes. Imagine if you're a contractor, a federal contractor, and you're receiving tens or hundreds of billions or millions of dollars from the federal government, and then this stuff starts fucking with that, right? I mean, you don't want anything to screw with your contracts, right? I mean, it's just like none of this makes sense. It it really just does it makes no sense.
Joel Cheesman (40:19.75)
Sure.
Joel Cheesman (40:25.563)
Yeah.
I mean, is indeed documenting all the conversations and and dialogue that goes on with their agents? We don't know. are they are they immune to lawsuits from that? Which they've they've put in the language around you can't sue us like years ago. A twenty, twenty-four, twenty five like they saw this coming and to sue indeed if you agree to this stuff is really really hard to do. But it doesn't clear you of risk as an employer if you're if these agents are are going off
Chad Sowash (40:36.056)
Here we go.
Chad Sowash (40:46.008)
Yes.
Joel Cheesman (40:57.785)
Off the reservation.
Chad Sowash (40:59.436)
No. No. Eject.
Joel Cheesman (41:01.54)
Yeah, just yeah, eject as if people have have an option. All right, Chad, let's move on from one evil empire to another. not since the chainsaw Texas Texas Chainsaw Massacre has the Lone Star State seen so many ghosts. That's right. Texas has launched a formal investigation into LinkedIn over allegations of ghost jobs. If you missed it, those are fake, misleading, or inactive postings that do not lead.
Chad Sowash (41:08.121)
Oof.
Joel Cheesman (41:31.014)
To real hiring. The Texas AG details a probe examining whether the platform defrauded paying premium subscribers by prop by profiting from listings that employers have no intention of filling. Texas is coming after LinkedIn, Chad. Who are you gonna call?
Chad Sowash (41:49.316)
I'd say what you did there. Ghostbusters. Yeah, yeah, I get that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I I think I I I personally think this is a great discussion and one that we've been having for decades, but because again, the market is abysmal, th there's a there's a lot of shit that's out there. There's a lot of spammers that are out there. So what what constitutes a real job? Right? I mean that's that's the big question.
Joel Cheesman (41:50.5)
Ghosts, Ghostbusters, get it? Yeah, you saw that.
Joel Cheesman (42:16.443)
Mm-hmm.
Chad Sowash (42:18.174)
And are evergreen jobs real jobs? another good question. what about trusted jobs? Do do you know where they are or or even better yet, trusted sources of jobs? I think I think these are questions that I actually had to deal with 15 years ago in building the the national labor exchange and working with state workforce and federal government. And
Joel Cheesman (42:32.966)
Mm-hmm.
Chad Sowash (42:47.596)
It was very simple for us. It was very simple for us. First and foremost, a trusted job came from a trusted source. The trusted source, primary trusted source, was directly from the corporate career site, right? Now, if you were a smaller company and you didn't have a corporate career site, well, most of those companies had to post into the state job banks. Trusted source, right? Boom.
Joel Cheesman (42:58.31)
Mm-hmm.
Chad Sowash (43:11.376)
because you had to have you had to have a business number, you had to have an EIN, an S E N, those types of things before you could actually post. So you were trusted. You have trusted sources. And that's the thing. if LinkedIn isn't currently using those trusted sources, they do have a free and they do have a ton of profiles that are out there that are obviously bogus profiles. but they're going to have to start cleaning that up. I did have a friend reach out to me this week with regard to
Joel Cheesman (43:32.9)
Uh-huh.
Chad Sowash (43:39.734)
Evergreen jobs, because he heard me talk about them on the show. And he said, you know, I just don't think evergreen jobs are real. They're just not real jobs because they're not opening, they're not open for a position at that time. And I said, okay, here's a great example. UPS hires 150,000 people within a six to eight week timeframe. Okay. There's no way they can perform that task by just pushing jobs up when they need them.
Joel Cheesman (43:46.501)
Mm-hmm.
Chad Sowash (44:08.568)
They have to have a a repository of jobs, right? So that's that's a one that's one example of why evergreen jobs make sense. I I think the hardest part about a lot of this discussion is we have government who who really doesn't understand what's happening on the the corporate side. And then we have the corporate side of the house that doesn't understand why it's important for the government. We need those, and we've done this before. We need those to get together to be able to talk about trusted sources.
Joel Cheesman (44:25.072)
Mm-hmm.
Chad Sowash (44:38.56)
And how we clean the system. Now, most of these other systems, and I'm not saying LinkedIn, but most of these other systems don't give a fuck. I mean, they take jobs from anywhere and everywhere just to say that we have ten bazillion jobs, right? and and I think that's that's gonna be one of the major problems. Is I don't think like LinkedIn is one of the big problems, but again.
Joel Cheesman (44:40.997)
Mm-hmm.
Joel Cheesman (44:50.896)
Sure.
Joel Cheesman (45:04.55)
Well you've you've raised some fair points, Chad, but I'm gonna go a different direction.
Chad Sowash (45:10.052)
Yeah.
Joel Cheesman (45:13.988)
I'm calling some political bullshit on this on this lawsuit. Okay, who is the AG in Texas? It's Ken Paxton. What is Ken Paxton doing? He's running for governor. What do people running for office love? Headlines. Especially headlines that make it look like you're for the working man and woman. You're here to protect the job seekers, the people looking for work. so these make great headlines. I'll also
Chad Sowash (45:20.42)
Could be. Paxton.
Chad Sowash (45:36.42)
Ha ha ha.
Joel Cheesman (45:43.621)
I'll also add that who's who has a headquarters in Texas? Indeed.com. Who is indeed.com's biggest pain in the ass? LinkedIn. Okay, where's LinkedIn headquartered? California. Who founded LinkedIn? Reed Hoffman. Who's a big time Democrat? Reed Hoffman.
Chad Sowash (45:51.06)
Yeah.
LinkedIn.
Joel Cheesman (46:05.159)
I I call total political bullshit. I wouldn't be surprised if if Paxson has a donor from Indeed who says, you know what, we'd love to make LinkedIn's life a little harder than it than it has been. Can you can you file some lawsuits? Because you know, you don't think Indeed has some ghost jobs? You think Indeed's all their stuff is legit? Yeah, but we don't go after Indeed because they're here in Texas and those are Texans working at at Indeed. So we're not gonna go there. So as far as I'm concerned,
Chad Sowash (46:17.209)
Yes.
Chad Sowash (46:23.851)
of course.
Joel Cheesman (46:33.52)
This is all about this is political theater, going out a a nice story, a big brand, good headlines. Paxton gets in the news, but this thing is gonna die. It's as simple as like, is indeed or is is any job board responsible for the jobs posted? Are they are they supposed to police every position when they're filled and how all this it's like saying that the New York Times is responsible for a classified ad in their newspaper? Like they can't police everything that goes on.
This is a political this is political theatrics. It will die after the election. And hopefully Ken Paxton will die will go away after the election as well. cause he is he well anyway, I won't get political on it, but this is all about politics in Texas.
Chad Sowash (47:20.354)
So I I I think you're wrong with regard to our our job sites. There's a shared responsibility between job sites and companies and their systems and being able to maintain their systems, right? and I think that's one of the one of the biggest problems we've had over the years is that when a company like scrapes or takes feeds from another company, and then there's a a company that might have a fucking spreadsheet with their jobs in it, right?
Joel Cheesman (47:43.204)
Yeah.
Chad Sowash (47:49.036)
a lot of that there are so many companies today that literally as soon as a job is posted within their applicant tracking system seconds later, it's it's it's distributed out to different distribution points, job sites or what have you. And when it's taken down, same thing happens, right? There's no reason that can't happen. It can't be the actual standard. so I we have we've gone beyond the newspaper. we we can we can do better.
and I I didn't think that this was I was hoping it didn't turn political, but since it did, I'm gonna say vote Tau Rico, vote Tau Rico, vote Tau Rico.
Joel Cheesman (48:29.702)
Yeah, I'm not falling for the banana in the tailpipe in Texas. And I don't think you are either. Yeah. If a job breaks a law, prostitution, child labor, whatever, like I there should be policing of that stuff for laws, but I think it's really hard to expect that ghost jobs can be policed by job boards. Anyway, Chad, we're gonna take a break here. Guys, if you haven't left a review for us, please go out. The algorithm helps us. And if you if you if you listen to us,
Chad Sowash (48:32.438)
Yeah.
Chad Sowash (48:38.446)
Yeah.
Joel Cheesman (48:56.676)
You should look at us too, 'cause trust me, we have faces for podcasting. Check us out at YouTube. YouTube dot com slash at Chad Cheese. We'll be right back.
Joel Cheesman (49:11.59)
Can you hear me, Chad? Okay. Well, you froze up you froze up video, but if as long as you can hear me, it's okay. And we're back. Chad, this next segment is pi powered by our friends at Aspen Tech Labs. If you love free beer and who doesn't, we'll get ready to turn into a sloppy summertime life of the party. Thanks to our friends at Aspen Tech Labs who are sending out some good premium artisanal beer, if you wear, if you will, from
Chad Sowash (49:13.107)
yeah. Can you hear me now? Can you hear me now? sorry, sorry. I'm here. You're good.
Chad Sowash (49:24.332)
Right there.
Joel Cheesman (49:39.111)
From my direct from my garage. But you can't win the beer if you don't play the game. Head out to Chadcheese.com/slash free for your chance at free beer. That's right. All right, let's get to our news, Chad. The digital pitchforks are out. A new petition signed by 4,500 Google employees is demanding layoff protections.
Chad Sowash (49:49.624)
Yes.
Joel Cheesman (50:02.361)
Amid the company's AI boom and four trillion dollar valuation. The petition calls for guaranteed severance, buyouts before mandatory layoffs, and the option to take severance as extended paid leave. Googlers won a prenup, Chad. What's your take?
Chad Sowash (50:07.492)
Oof.
Chad Sowash (50:22.168)
Yeah, I I think it's really simple. Google spends seventy billion dollars to buy back stock just about every year. So asking for a guaranteed severance in buyouts, I think is more than fair. I mean, those individuals helped propel the company's performance, which impacts sales and stock performance. So they deserve a little taste, especially on the way out. And the same thing goes for companies like Oracle.
Joel Cheesman (50:36.773)
Mm-hmm.
Chad Sowash (50:50.196)
Amazon, if your company can afford a stop buyback, you can afford to pay the people. To me, it's simple, pay your people.
Joel Cheesman (51:05.776)
So for a little context, Google employs hundreds of thousands of employees. So 4,500, it may seem big in relative terms, depending on who you work for, but in Google terms, it's not a ton of people. So I don't I don't know if this moves the needle. I think it makes it for a good headline. I don't know how much power they have to back this thing up. What but what I do like is what it could mean to retention. So in a marital prenup,
Are you more likely to work things out if you know you're going to lose a lot of your shit or not? Like depending on what's like it might keep you in the marriage a little bit longer to know that let's work something out, or hey, here's what we're agreed upon. So I I do like the idea of as a retention recruiting tool to say, you know what, if you come work here, we're gonna guarantee a severance if there's a layoff due to AI or technology, like we will take care of you, and it's here in writing, if this happens.
Chad Sowash (51:52.056)
Mm-hmm.
Joel Cheesman (52:04.615)
Otherwise, you're just expecting that the company will do the right thing, that they'll be beneficent and give you money and pay you a good severance. So I do, I do like it as a recruiting tool and retention tool to say, look, no other company is offering you guaranteed severance if we lay you off in regards to technology. So I do like it as that from that perspective. And that will make other companies adopt it. I I think Google's lawyers will.
Chad Sowash (52:13.848)
Yeah.
Joel Cheesman (52:34.116)
bury this thing under a pile of, you know, paper and it won't go anywhere because it's still such a few number of of of of employees. But I do like it as a retention tool. I don't know. I think companies should adopt it if they want to recruit some of the best people.
Chad Sowash (52:49.762)
Yeah, I here's the here's the problem is it it goes back to the the companies and they're still in control. That's the biggest problem with the US labor force right now. Company has all control. There's they they're the the relationship is is is not balanced at all. At all. And the individuals who are doing the work on a daily basis are the ones who actually drive the record profits that they're actually fucking seeing.
Joel Cheesman (53:03.814)
Uh-huh.
Chad Sowash (53:19.926)
So, you know, there's gotta be something, and I hate to say this, but there's gotta be some type of legislation that actually is pushed in. We allowed buybacks, I think it was back in '82 to to to to to come to the front, to come to the front, right? go figure Reagan, asshole. but but I mean, all of it, all of it in one failed swoop is look, we need to be fair.
Joel Cheesman (53:32.528)
Got you.
Chad Sowash (53:47.17)
All the way through, if you can spend $70 billion in a fucking year, let's just say billions of dollars, like Oracle, in a year for stock buybacks, you can take a chunk of that and you can put it away for severance and you know different just different packages for your employees. There's gotta be some fairness, there's gotta be some balance. I don't like the control being so heavily on the employer side, it's just
Joel Cheesman (53:54.118)
Mm-hmm.
Joel Cheesman (54:10.758)
Mm-hmm.
Chad Sowash (54:16.0)
It it's just not right. And it's not good for the nation, obviously, because look at it. I mean, look at the the the richest country in the world and look at the high number of poverty that we have right now. It's just it's crazy, man. There's no reason.
Joel Cheesman (54:28.198)
Mm-hmm. All right, let's let's let's play Little Vegas. twenty twenty seven, better odds. Google gives guaranteed severance or the Cleveland Browns win the Super Bowl?
Chad Sowash (54:41.164)
definitely Google gives guaranteed seven rates. There's no question. No question on that one.
Joel Cheesman (54:47.088)
Well, one guaranteed thing in Vegas is a dad joke to end the show. And I got I was on such a high over last week's naughty, naughty joke. So I gotta I gotta keep I gotta keep it going. I gotta keep it going. Yeah, brain blame blame the Brits like everything else. what's the difference between virgin olive oil and extra virgin olive oil? What's the difference between virgin olive oil and extra virgin olive oil?
Chad Sowash (54:50.412)
A dad joke.
Chad Sowash (54:56.34)
come on Emmy I'm messaging her right now I am messaging her right now Fuck
Chad Sowash (55:17.302)
Shut my mic off. so bad. Emmy Weow.
Joel Cheesman (55:19.64)
Uglier olives.
Joel Cheesman (55:27.311)
We out.