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LinkedIn's New AI and Rippling's New ATS


Tech teams must have a little time on their hands. Either that, or they’re abnormally inspired after a spring of big tech layoffs. OK, maybe both. Anyway, LinkedIn is apparently launching new A.I. features for job seekers and Rippling is getting into the ATS game. Other than that, the boys discuss Yellow trucking’s epic crash, chatbots like Paradox landing in Forbes' penalty box and Tom Brady beefing up his resume and investment portfolio. Throw in the beginning of the NFL season and marriage advice from porn star Mia Khalifa and you’ve got one helluva show.



INTRO: Hide your kids. Lock the doors. You're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts. Complete with breaking news, brash opinion, and loads of snark. Buckle up, boys and girls. It's time for the Chad and Cheese podcast.


Joel: Oh, yeah. It's International Beer Day. Do I really need to follow that up with anything?


Chad: No.


Joel: No, I don't think so. You're listening to the Chad and Cheese podcast. This is your co-host, Joel Foggy Geezer Cheeseman.


Chad: And this is Chad Warpigs Sowash.


Joel: And on this week's show, LinkedIn coaches yellow trucking crashes. And Tom Brady is jumping into football. Or is it pronounced football?


Chad: Football.


Joel: Let's do this.


Joel: Dude, you got an MRI today. What?


Chad: Yeah, yeah, yeah.


Joel: That old high school... The Al Bundy.


Chad: Of tennis. Years of tennis, now starting to play paddle ball when we're in Europe. And I gotta say, I was so pissed. The American healthcare system is for fucking shit. I had to pay $850 for an MRI. We pay a shit ton of cash every month for insurance. Plus, you have out-of-pocket and you have your co-pays. And it's like, Jesus Christ, man, why don't we just put all these into one tax, throw it somewhere, and then we just go have a buffet of healthcare? How about that? How about we do that?


Joel: But all the profits, Chad. All the profits.


Chad: I'm just gonna rack up more Delta miles on this one. Jesus.


Joel: That'll teach you... That'll show you for playing paddle ball, whatever the hell that is. Don't pick up pickleball, goddammit.


Chad: But think of it though, for most people, they can't afford that kind of cash just to take care of something, especially if this was even worse. Didn't show up on an x-ray. Had to do an MRI. So, most people can't afford that. And to me, waking up, having my coffee, and then getting smacked in the face with that, that was not a good way to start the day. [laughter]


Joel: Sure. And then you wonder why everyone's dropping fentanyl, because they got a lot of pain that they gotta deal with and don't wanna deal with the expenses of that.


Chad: The pain's gonna happen tonight though, kids. [laughter]


Joel: Okay.


S3: What are you doing, step bro?


Chad: Not talking about Julie. She's not into that kind of stuff. Talking about NFL football, baby. We are both stoked that it is back. We have preseason football tonight with Browns versus Jets, and I have... And I think anybody who listens to this podcast, I don't choose NFL teams. I'm a big college fan, and when they come, those players come to the NFL. I like watching the players. I like watching the Buckeye players. So tonight, I'll be watching Garrett Wilson very closely. So, go Jets.


Joel: Did you say Browns?


[music]


Joel: Did you say Browns were on tonight? Oh, oh.


Chad: Never have the Browns been sexy. There's never been a time. There's never been a time.


Joel: But YouTube viewers will notice my lovely Browns T-shirt...


Chad: Oh, that is... Yeah.


Joel: That I have on tonight, to commemorate, I think, a very good season this year. I think it's gonna be... I say that every season, but it's gonna be a good season. I can feel it.


Chad: You say that every season. I'mma be watching me some Justin Fields again, it's Buckeyes all over the NFL, which gives me an opportunity to watch every team and just enjoy it.


Joel: Speaking of college football, did you see the word is Oregon and Washington are looking to join the Big 10? It's gonna be Coke and Pepsi in college football. And allegedly...


Chad: Wow.


Joel: Clemson, Florida State and maybe Miami will be joining the SEC when they open up again. It really is gonna be like a two-tiered system and it has the have and the have nots, everyone under that.


Chad: Exactly. Well, and it's gonna be a sticky situation for the NCAA because these conferences are getting so big. They could actually just go ahead and secede from NCAA. And they've already talked about this, right? So having their own system with their own players, for their own university. So, this could be interesting.


Joel: It's essentially the pros. Coaches are making eight figures. NIL students are making millions of dollars. Players are making millions of dollars.


Chad: Not all of them though. Yeah.


Joel: No. That's why you're gonna have the haves and the have nots. And the best are gonna be in the best league and everybody else will be...


Chad: That's unfortunate.


Joel: I don't know, getting an endorsement from Nikki's Ford dealership, [laughter] down on Main Street in Toledo, I guess.


Chad: From your local State Farm representative, yes. [laughter]


Joel: The little league team sponsored by...


Chad: Yes, exactly.


Joel: Joey Bagadonuts football player.


Chad: Oh my God. Very nice.


Joel: Well, someone who should be getting sponsored and has gotten some attention by a lot of our listeners is former porn star, [laughter] Mia Khalifa Chad. That's right. We don't just do employment topics here. We're also interested in the personal growth of our listeners, including marriage advice. And what better person to give marriage advice than a former porn queen. She's trending this week for giving the following advice. Take a listen.


S5: Oh, we're comparing stats. Baby girl doesn't know that I am Tom Brady at this game. Married at 18, divorced at 21. Second marriage, married at 25, divorced at 28. Third engagement, engaged at 29, ended it at 30, but I kept the ring. I'm still keeping Tom Brady on his toes. We should not be afraid to leave these men. We are not stuck with these people. Marriage is not a sanctimonious thing. It is paperwork. It's a commitment you make to someone. But if you feel like you're not getting anything from that commitment, and you're trying, you gotta go. You gotta go. You have to go.


Joel: Clearly someone who doesn't have kids in any of these three previous marriages. Because you can't just do that shit with kids. But anyway, I feel like this is a generational opinion, and a generation that just swipes left and right and orders their date for the evening has this mentality of like, "Eh, I'm unhappy. It's easy to get somebody else. I'm outta here." But to think of marriage as paperwork, you're getting into it for the wrong reasons.


Chad: It's like religion in some cases. Everybody's gonna have their own belief systems and how they work with relationships and religion and all these things. Take whatever you want from that porn star advice, whoever, right? I think I'll look other places.


Joel: And another reason why the sex robots will be taking over in the near future, because of that mentality.


Chad: Back to industry stuff. So Skillit, a New York City-based, data-driven recruiting platform for full-time construction labor has secured 8.5 million in additional funding, listed as pretty much an extension to a seed round. Stay tuned, kids, because we are supposed to have Skillit on the firing squad in the coming weeks, so I can't wait to talk to these guys about what they're doing in construction, hiring, and also what they're gonna do with that money.


Joel: When you said "Skillit," I thought we were meeting for breakfast, for some egg skillets, some peasant potatoes, some chorizo, maybe. Some things I like in my skillets.


Chad: Chorizo.


Joel: I don't know what you like in yours. But, Chad, I know what a lot of people like is free shit in their mailbox, at their doorstep. And I have to recognize the fact that a lot of our listeners are posting on LinkedIn, sharing their shirts, sharing their booze. It's a warm and fuzzy feeling. If you're not part of the club, people.


Chad: Come on.


Joel: You gotta go to chadcheese.com, click that free link, give us your information. We'll send you a t-shirt from JobGet, and you could potentially win a whiskey from our friends at Textkernel, beer from the folks at Aspen Tech Labs. We're doing Airbnb gift cards to the tune of $250 from our friends at Abode. Am I missing anyone? Am I missing anyone?


Chad: I don't think so.


Joel: No, I think I got it all, man. And while you're there...


Chad: That's a lot.


Joel: Go to the podcast platform of your choice and give us a review. If you listen to us, watch us, and if you're on YouTube, make sure you subscribe and tune in to our videos because those are trending as well. Not like Mia Khalifa's wedding advice...


Chad: Pretty face.


Joel: But trending nonetheless.


[chuckle]


Chad: You got birthdays.


Joel: There we go.


S6: Can you feel the tension in the air right now? I know I can. I can feel it all the way down in my plums.


[laughter]


Joel: Alright, Chad, you know what that means. Another group of listeners celebrating another trip around the sun. That includes Wendy Daly, Kim Bates, Christy Kelling, Stephanie Pendrys, Michael Malady, Sally Millet, Christopher Cleland, Micah Clark, Neil Costa, Marc Coleman of Unleash fame, Brendan Cruickshank, Cyndi Peterson Hash, and Jessica Lee. Everybody.


Chad: Yes.


SFX: Happy birthday.


Joel: Happy birthday. We love you. We love you.


Chad: You know what time it is, kids. That's right. Events powered by the Shaker Recruitment Marketing. That's right. So, we have RecFest coming up in Nashville on September 13th where we're taking the Disrupt stage all day to talk about recruiting in technology. And we're doing it with special guests. Get ready. Special guests, Allyn Bailey and Tracy Parsons from the Talent Rebel Cast podcast, and Shelley Billinghurst and Serge Bougereau from the...


Joel: RecFlex.


Chad: The RecFlex. It's gonna be a star-studded day on the Disrupt stage in Nashville in September, except for Serge. We're letting him come on. He's not stars at all. 50% discount on this show, kids, why? Because we want you to bring everybody. This is a all-hands talent acquisition team scenario. So bring one, bring all. Go to chadcheese.com/events or just click 'Events' in the upper right-hand corner. Then, Gems 2023 Virtual Talent Summit where you will find Joel and I, where we're gonna be joined by Commissioner of the EEOC, Keith Sonderling, and NYU professor, PhD Mona Sloane to talk about AI's ability to unlock recruiting efficiencies, the trials, tribulations, and reasons why or why not the recruitment community should embrace AI.


Chad: Now, watch out, kids. Look for the golden ticket, because we're going to have a pre-recording party, which means you're gonna be invited to the actual recording to interact. This is a virtual event, but we're going to invite a scarce amount of people to come and enjoy and interact with us. And also, again, EEOC Commissioner Sonderling and Professor Sloane. So, that's happening for the Gem event. HR Tech then happens at Mandalay Bay, 10th through the 13th of October. Man, we're gonna be in the expo hall for two solid days with Fuel50. Two days, eating, drinking, interviewing, and who knows what all the hell else we're gonna be doing with them. But thanks, Fuel50, for allowing us to crash at their place in Vegas during the biggest HR Tech show in the industry. Then we've got three days. We're gonna be on a plane to Paris, to go to a staple of a show, UNLEASH Paris, UNLEASH World.


SFX: Alright, alright, alright.


Chad: It's an amazing show. If you're in Europe, you've gotta be there. There's no question. If you're in the US and maybe you're not going to HR Tech, or maybe you are and you wanna make the crazy flight like Joel and I are, go to chadcheese.com/events, or just go to chadcheese.com in the upper right-hand corner. Click on 'Events,' register, register, register. We wanna see you there.


Joel: By the way, you mentioned Serge and Shelley. Somebody make sure they're not on the ledge. Word is that Justin Trudeau, the Prime Minister of Canada...


Chad: What?


Joel: Is separating from his wife, so...


SFX: Take off what you were doing in our movie. Don't wreck our show, you hoser.


Joel: Little love for the Canadians. Make sure they're alright, everybody.


[music]


Chad: TOPICS!


Joel: Alright, let's start with LinkedIn, shall we? They're reportedly developing an AI coach for job seekers to expand its presence in the recruitment segment, which contributes to half of the company's revenue. The AI coach, known as "LinkedIn coach," I wonder how long the marketing team worked on that one, will assist users in applying for jobs, acquiring new skills, and expanding their network using the power of AI. The tool will suggest questions and aid users in finding and applying for jobs through conversational interactions, also known as a ChatBot. Chad, what are your thoughts on this news outta LinkedIn?


Chad: I've said it once and I will say it again. LinkedIn has more career information, content and intent for me than any other social or hiring platform that's out there. And they still cannot do basic matching on jobs. They still can't do it. The problem, they have a 20-year-old infrastructure being flooded with new... That's right, kids. Air quotes. New features, while a wave of tech debt slaps them in the face every morning. And now, they want to get into coaching. All of their tech is disparate for the most part, and a good amount is old. They don't need new products and services, they need to modernize what they have and shore up the data foothold as Microsoft, generative AI, gets ready to consume user data and advise users. So this feels like Microsoft is really just trying to pressure and push this down the throat of LinkedIn.


Chad: And I'm sure there are very many people on the product team that are incredibly overzealous about this, but here's an example of what I mean. LinkedIn launched an AI chat feature, and here's a quote from a story. "I used LinkedIn's new AI chat feature to message people about job opportunities. It saved time, but was very generic and kept getting my experience wrong." Getting my experience wrong. You've got it right there. How are you taking these basic data points and fucking things up? I just don't trust LinkedIn.


SFX: 60% of the time, it works every time.


Chad: I don't give them 60%.


Joel: So, this is what... Alright, this is Chad's take then, on the news. This is what happens when your parent company drops a billion dollar investment on something called OpenAI. AI is infiltrating everything Microsoft, and I guarantee you, someone on high said, "Okay, LinkedIn, you need and must integrate this shit ASAP, into whatever." Someone said, "Oh, we already have this LinkedIn coaching thing," which by the way, apparently has over a million users. LinkedIn is like 930 million people strong, by the way.


Chad: Yeah.


Joel: So roughly 1% are using this current coach. We'll see how many use the new iteration of the coach. But this is just generally ChatGPT looking at the information that LinkedIn already has. I'm sure it's gonna recommend jobs, it's gonna help you through your job search. Now, the one thing that I do think is interesting here is I've been talking a lot about ChatGPTs and Bard and the threat to Glassdoor and any kind of review site. And one of the questions some Twitter... Some tweet or X or whatever, I think, shared this screenshot, was the question of, what is the culture like at Microsoft? Was the sample question. That's essentially asking, what are the reviews like working at this company? And just like I've said at Bard or ChatGPT, you can ask, "Hey, what's it like to work at Wells Fargo or Salesforce?" And it will show you an answer based on stuff that's on the internet. It'll give you pros and cons. It'll give you a summary. So if I were Glassdoor and Indeed and Blind, maybe some of these others, that is another sort of nail in the coffin to say, if this thing gets integrated to any extent in LinkedIn and LinkedIn's nearly billion users kind of get access to this, what does it mean to us and our reviews?


Joel: Now, the irony in this is, is ChatGPT and Bard get their answers largely from the content that's on Glassdoor and Indeed and other review sites. So if at some point they shut that data off, which I think they should, or Monster should have shut off Indeed when they had the chance. All these companies should shut off ChatGPT and other large learning models from getting into their content. Otherwise, you're just gonna be able to go to any search engine, any voice search, ask what it's like to work at a company, it's gonna use your content to do that. Look, I think this is something that LinkedIn had to do as a Microsoft company. Time will tell. They're not confirming the existence of this thing. There are screenshots out there, this may be a small beta test to see how people use it. It may not be, ready for prime time anytime soon. But they've gotta go this way. They've gotta go to AI, they've gotta go to Chat...


Chad: I agree.


Joel: They've gotta go where everyone else is going.


Chad: Yes.


Joel: Your point is, historically, they're really bad at it.


Chad: They've got 20-year-old technology. They need to rebuild the rails so they're ready for the next generation. The next generation's here. They're not ready for it. I mean, that's the problem that I have. I would love to see LinkedIn kick ass, take names. But the problem is they are, like many organizations, they are stuck on this old ass infrastructure, and it's going to cost a lot of money... Don't get me wrong, I get it. It's gonna cost a lot of money to rebuild, but they've got to do it. It's either now or the shit just implodes on itself.


Joel: They're Model T in a Tesla world, Chad.


Chad: Yes.


Joel: Let's talk about some new tech company called Rippling is getting into the ATS game. Does the world need another ATS? I guess we will find out. The company has launched Rippling Recruiting. Again, another one for the marketing department to score one. A new applicant tracking system aimed at streamlining and automating the hiring process. Rippling says their offering relieves common pain points in recruiting, such as limited access to tools and data for recruiters and hiring managers, lack of configurability in existing ATS platforms, data discrepancies due to disconnected systems. And alignment issues between headcount planning, recruiting and the HRIS. All common complaints from people who have an ATS. Chad, what's your take on Rippling getting into the ATS game?


Chad: Well, I'm a big fan of a company keeping it simple, and Rippling Recruiting says what it is. There you have it. Nice day. Right? There you go. I love it. I hate it when companies and brands over-engineer new products. It's fucking ridiculous. So I give the name an A+. Rippling has taken over a billion dollars, US, in funding, 1.2 to be exact, and some of that was during the SVB debacle in March earlier this year, where Rippling took advantage of a crisis by grabbing another 500 million in Series E funding. So this move makes sense because Rippling needs to expand their total addressable market, and moving up the funnel is the easiest way to do so. The problem with that move is pretty simple. Name an HRIS that has an innovative recruiting solution that everybody wants.


Joel: There isn't one.


Chad: But why is that simple? The HRIS system, they're a stack within themselves, with payroll, onboarding, time and attendance benefits, and the list just keeps going. And the thing is all of the attention and all the noise happens on that side. Right? And all the money is spent on the HRIS side of the house, which means anything that's recruiting right out of the gate, I'm gonna predict that there are gonna be a ton of Rippling customers that are fans of this, but then the tech is just gonna atrophy very quickly, because it's not gonna get the time and attention that it needs. That's why every HRIS system that's out there, that has recruiting; ADP, SAP, UKG, name your fucking acronym, they all have shitty recruiting platforms because it doesn't get the time, attention and money that it needs. So, yes, it makes sense as you have this huge valuation and all this money to be able to expand your footprint, but going this way, to me, it makes sense, but it's not gonna be a great platform.


SFX: Doesn't anyone notice this? I feel like I've taken crazy pills.


Joel: I don't think iCIMS is losing a lot of sleep over this news. They probably didn't when LinkedIn launched an ATS. But the growing sentiment is that ATS's are commodities, it's pretty simple to put data in database, make it searchable, create this, I guess, official log of who's applied to your company, and as a result, people think they can just plug and play. "Yes, we have an ATS. Yes, you can use that." And this battle for one platform to rule them all is still ongoing. Look, Paradox launched an ATS not that long ago. In addition to being a commodity, I think there's some real threat to companies feeling like, "If ATS X buys my competitor, I'm eventually gonna get squeezed out of that ATS." We talked about Canvas getting bought and being squeezed out of iCIMS who bought Text Recruiting a few years before that. I think there's some real fear of a lot of companies saying, "We don't wanna get squeezed out by said ATS, so we need to create our own system, our own platform that people can use our ATS, and we don't have to worry about being part of another ATS. Or, if there's a threat there, we're prepared for it."


Joel: I think that we're seeing this with even Appcast and Bayard. Chris Forman, founder of Appcast is currently on a charm offensive apparently to sort of temper people's other agencies' fear that their Appcast is gonna cut them out of the deals, or just be a Bayard shop or become a competitor. And I think that sort of charm offensive is due because a lot of people are just on edge that, if it's not our tech, we're gonna get squeezed out and we're gonna be left behind. So if ATS is a commodity, people think it's easy to implement, maybe customers care, don't care how good it is, but companies more and more feel like they need to have it, and I think you're gonna see... Fountain is an ATS that became a chatbot, right? Or has a chatbot. So you're gonna see this bleeding into feature sets, everybody's got everything. It's probably gonna be a lot of mediocre products, quite honestly, although most of our customers in our space aren't super sticklers about, it's gotta be really good. It's more like, check it off the checklist that I can tell my manager, my boss, that, yes, we have that.


Joel: So I think it's something that they had to do. I think you're right in saying that it will get neglected, people will get bored with it, it'll get shittier and shittier every passing year. But it is something that they had to do, and I think this will continue to be a trend, like, "We got an ATS too, everybody's got an ATS," just like everybody's got a chatbot, everybody's mobile, everybody's got search engine-optimized jobs. This is just another me too that we're gonna be talking about on the show.


Chad: I think this is more for investors than it is anything else, but there's no way that Rippling is gonna be a best-in-breed solution, number one. So don't expect that to happen. And when we're talking about the Chris Formans of the world, I think it's awesome. He is definitely on a charm offensive right now, but the big question is, what happens when Chris leaves, what happens when he ejects to his private island in his super yacht? That's the thing, is that we have to understand that this is a much longer and much deeper relationship than just one person. Right? And in this case, from a Rippling standpoint, they have a lot of money, they do have to grow somehow, so yes, you're going to see this, it's gonna be something where, again, the Workdays have done it, everybody's done it, so it's gonna be a fight that many talent acquisition professionals are going to have to say when they say, "I don't want that piece of shit, we want something that's best-in-breed." So it's something we've been fighting for years. We will have to continue to do that.


Joel: Yeah, it's a great point you make in terms of, look, Rippling has a ton of the investment money, the investors sit in a room and they go, "How do we add a billion dollars of value to this company?" And someone says, "Let's be an ATS, they're worth billions." And someone says, "Sure, let's take a piece of that." And they go, "How long will it take to build?" And they say, "Well, not that long. It's kind of been out there." And then they build it and they think, like, Oh, this is gonna add a billion dollars of value to the company. It's like Handshake saying, "We're taking on LinkedIn." Investors wanna hear big plans, and, "Hey, we're gonna compete with iCIMS and Workday and everybody else," is certainly a way to do that and pacify the investors.


Joel: Alright, Chad, this is from Forbes. Chatbots are increasingly being used by companies to interview and screen job applicants, often for blue collar jobs, but like other algorithmic hiring tools before them, experts and job applicants worry these tools could be biased. Legislation is even being introduced to regulate their use. And fatigue may be becoming an issue with one job seeker saying, if they had to text with a chatbot for every job they applied to, it would be a "pain in the ass." The inevitable pushback against the chatbots. Chad, what's your take? Is the honeymoon over?


Chad: Yeah. I don't think those job seekers ever applied for a job before in their life, because if they had to go from applicant tracking system form to form to form, it's even worse. So here's the question we need to ask ourselves. Was the application process, interview scheduling, and just overall hiring experience better when only humans were at the helm? The answer, it's a resounding fuck no. Humans are the most biased machine in the world. Candidates entered a black hole with no communication after they hit the apply page and hit submit. And bad managers are bad managers with or without AI. Doesn't matter, right? So why was all of this a problem before? Scalability. Humans don't scale. We talk about it all the time, which is why unconscious, biased, or just plain full-on biased black holes, overworked staff and the reason why advanced processes in tech can be the answer to literally a better experience and less bias. So this piece, to me, it felt like a hit piece almost. It focuses on one experience in very anecdotal tale. Really one data point, let's say. The last time we talked to the team over at Paradox, they were getting a 98% good experience rating from candidates.


Chad: And that's hundreds of thousands, if not millions of data points. So it's important that we understand that before AI, chatbots, RPA and other tech, we had major issues. And those issues were the issues of the humans' inability to scale well and fast. So many of the platforms out there today are demonstrating better candidate and recruiting experiences because candidates aren't entering a black hole and recruiters aren't performing bullshit and mundane tasks. This is a pain point that we're going to have to push through. Mainly, most of these issues, I'm going to say, were human setup problems and/or managers just didn't... And I think you even have a great story aroundCole, where he showed up at one of these stores and they're like, "Yeah, you're not on the schedule." I mean, it happened before chatbots, guys.


Joel: Yeah. This didn't go very deep, Chad.


SFX: Just the tip.


Chad: Yeah. No.


Joel: Here's my theory. Journalists are getting laid off left and right. This writer was probably looking for a job, ran into a chatbot at some point and said, "Hey, I should write about this. And how can I put a negative spin on it?" And thus, we get the lost resume scheduled without knowing I was coming. Basic glitchy, buggy kind of things that all tech goes through, chatbot even more so than others, 'cause you're dealing with a lot of moving pieces with text messaging and web... Regular... There's a lot of things going on there. Yeah. How many times before the internet did resumes get thrown in the trash, lost in the mail? Somebody's ass was wiped with a resume at some point, I'm sure, in history. So this thing's been going on forever. I don't know how they found the specific people that were like, "I didn't get scheduled, something happened." Now, it did say that they'd reached out to Paradox for a comment, and I wish Paradox would've commented. Maybe they didn't get time to do so. They even brought about an Australian example with Sapia.


Chad: Which is entirely different, by the way. I mean, they're talking about application process and then they flip over into AI assessments, and it's like, Jesus Christ, you guys have no fucking... And that's a thing. We see so many "experts" in this space who literally have no fucking practical experience and/or knowledge. They might be an academic who works with AI, but they have no clue of the practical application, how it should actually work. So, anyway.


Joel: Yeah. Yeah. Look, this writer went to the editor and said, "I wanna write a story on chatbots and how they're biased," 'cause they did a search on legislation and found Illinois and found New York. And I'll find some people that talk badly about it. It's kind of new tech. It's timely, it's negative. People will click on it, people will share it. And that's what drives a lot of the media, including podcasts in some cases, Chad. Sometimes, that's what pushes us. But yeah, little bit of a hit piece. Not much to see here, in my opinion.


Chad: No.


Joel: Hopefully a lot of government officials don't read this and say, "Oh shit, chatbots are the devil. We need to create some new legislation to cut them down." Because I will tell you that from Cole's perspective, chatbot versus no much more amenable to doing chatbots than hoping for the best.


Chad: Exactly.


Joel: And speaking of hoping for the best, Chad.


Chad: Oh God, let's hope.


Joel: Yeah. Yellow Corp, a trucking business that's been around for 99 years has ceased operations and will lay off all of its 30,000 workers. Union conflicts, financial troubles, and a significant amount of debt contributed to the shutdown. In addition to the company's closure impacting employees, shareholders and customers, the US taxpayer who provided a $700 million loan during the pandemic will also get a kick in the groin. Chad, your thoughts on the Yellow news?


Chad: So, just running down through all of the shit show, which is this Yellow trucking company. In 2019, Yellow lost more than $100 million. They were $1.5 billion, ba ba billion dollars in debt. 700 million in PPP loans from the US government. In return, the treasury took a 30% stake in the company. And with Yellow Corporation reported assets being 2.5 billion, as a shareholder and debt owner, the US government's gonna get paid back, period. Okay? That's not gonna be a problem. So the whole kick in the nuts thing is total bullshit. The most fantastical point, I think, is that 30,000 employees will be jobless. Not a chance in hell. That happens as trucking and logistics companies have desperately needed talent for years. My prediction is that most of these people will be in new and like jobs at competitors, within 30 days. If I were a competitor, I'd already be aggressively marketing to these people, and also meeting with the teamsters. This is where you need to have all those cylinders going, because there are 30,000 people that are out there, and you want the best talent that you can get. And we know that in trucking and logistics, there's a major shortfall, and Yellow represents about 7% of the actual market. So, who's gonna cover that?


Joel: It's safe to say a lot of people are seeing red over yellow, Chad. Sorry. Sorry. I could not resist.


Chad: Horrible, horrible. For sure.


Joel: Yeah. Look, the narrative that people are trying to spin here is either, this is a canary in the coal mine for the US economy as a whole...


Chad: No.


Joel: Or, unions are awful, that's why this company went to shit.


Chad: No.


Joel: This is a horribly run company.


Chad: Yes.


Joel: It's a hundred years old of... I don't know how they survived a hundred years, other than the fact that trucking is a really important business and it's hard to lose money. Although they did, but also stayed in business. Oddly enough, there's a huge short squeeze on their stock right now and it's up 80 some percent. Don't get into it, people. Don't take financial advice and trade this shit.


Chad: No, no.


Joel: But the stock is going bonkers.


Chad: Wow.


Joel: It's gotta be a poach fest. Everyone who wants truckers has got to be on the phone, mass marketing to these people, 'cause that's 30,000 folks that are gonna have a job in 30 days, unless they don't want a job. But look, this is not the union's fault. This is not a canary in the coal mine of the US economy. This is a shitty, shitty business. And if you're in the trucking industry, you should be poaching your ass off for the next 30 days, to get these folks into your company.


Chad: A badly run failing company shouldn't be confused with a teamster problem or a federal government problem or an economic problem.


Joel: Yeah. Yeah. By the way, trucking is not my lane, and I don't think it's yours. But these guys are also like...


[laughter]


Chad: Get it.


Joel: I guess they're called light load trucks, where they don't fill up the whole truck.


Chad: No, I hear you. No, I hear you. Yeah.


Joel: It could be half full, so when gas went up and they're light load... What did I say? Anyway. I got a light load.


Chad: I think that's a problem with Americans today. We wanna have it now. We wanna have it yesterday, so therefore we have to actually do that bullshit shipping. We have to get rid of the expectation of next day. It's all there is to it. If you want it, then you've gotta go out on the local market. Don't go to Amazon and think you're gonna get it tomorrow. Too fucking bad. And these companies like Yellow, that's exactly what they were doing. They were doing light load, short loads and it was hurting them every single year, but they kept doing it.


Joel: Yeah. It's that kind of mentality that'll force you into divorce after two years, Chad. Go back to Mia Khalifa. [laughter] That's where it all goes. And by the way, I don't think we talked about the Teamsters' win at UPS. Right? They wanted air conditioning and something else, right?


Chad: Yeah, how hard was that?


Joel: Pretty fair stuff. By the way, Jimmy Hoffa from Indiana, I don't know if you knew that or not. [laughter] Tom Brady, however, is not from Indiana.


Chad: More to come.


Joel: Alright. Let's talk about Michigan alumni, not even an argument, the best quarterback of all time, I think. I mean, have fun with that.


Chad: Yeah. Unfortunately.


Joel: NFL legend, Tom Brady, has become a minority owner of English Soccer Club, or is that Football club? Birmingham, I think it's pronounced Birmingham City. He will be the chairman of the advisory board, applying his leadership and expertise to various aspects of the Club. Brady, who retired from the NFL last year is the second former NFL star to invest in English football in recent months. Here's a chance to talk about Wrexham and Chad's bromance with Ryan Reynolds. Chad, I go to you for all my football commentary. What are your thoughts on Tom's move?


Chad: Brady apparently didn't get the memo. He's not following the Wrexham recipe. I mean, why pay for a stake in a championship league team, which is just below Premier League, when you can go directly to the bottom and buy the entire fucking team? Get a Netflix or a Hulu series deal, and then follow the Wrexham recipe. That was one of the... I think one of the amazing moments is when that came out, when the welcome to Wrexham came out, and we watched, literally watched Marketing and Business 101, and it was amazing. I think they bought the team for... I mean, it was bargain basement, for goodness sakes.


Joel: Two and a half million, I think?


Chad: Two years. Two years later, they go up a league. And they're playing teams in actually the championship league and beating them. So why, again, Tom Brady, why don't you pay attention to the actual winning recipes that are out there? But it just doesn't make any sense.


SFX: That escalated quickly.


Joel: Let's give Tom a little break. He's single now, so there are plenty of 18-year-old supermodels to date. And he doesn't have time to manage a whole soccer team.


Chad: He can pay somebody to do that.


Joel: Apparently, owning a sports team or a media company is the new rich thing to do. Or I guess if you're really, really rich, you send rockets into space.


Chad: Yeah.


Joel: I find this really fascinating. Soccer football offers you the opportunity... Correct me if I'm wrong, but Premier League, if you're in the bottom four, you go down a league and then the top four in the next league go up. Is that correct?


Chad: There's the relegation that happens.


Joel: Relegation, this is all about relegation. So if you can invest down here and get a team up here, the value goes up. I don't know what, a hundred x? It's...


Chad: Yes. Yes.


Joel: Particularly if you get to the Premier League, it's...


Chad: Like buying a stock when it's low.


Joel: Yeah, exactly. Whereas you can't do that in the NFL. You can't do that in baseball.


Chad: No.


Joel: You can maybe do it in some minor league teams or new leagues. I think that's why Pickleball is getting so much interest, 'cause if that thing takes off, then you really were on the bottom floor of that. But I think it's so intriguing to own this relegation system where you get in low, you buy low, you use your celebrity and your money to get good players, build a fan base, sell a lot of shit 'cause you're now part of this. If you get bumped up... I mean, how far is Wrexham from the Premier League? Two leagues or something?


Chad: They're still... No. Still, I think, four leagues. They're either three or four leagues, so they're still on the rise, right?


Joel: This whole ecosystem lends itself to like, oh, come in, use your stardom, spend some money, get better, get up a league and then your team is worth 10 times more than it was. And then you can sell, you can continue to play the game. I think it's all very intriguing and I think more and more stars and money people will do this. And by the way, that's why Chad and Cheese... You're learning about this now, Chad. Chad and Cheese are the newest investors in the Ohio aviators of the ACL, also known as the American Cornhole League, Chad. [laughter] That's right. We're now owners of a Cornhole team. Happy International Beer Day, everybody. We out!


Chad: We out!


Outro: Wow! Look at you. You made it through an entire episode of the Chad and Cheese podcast. Or, maybe you cheated and fast forwarded to the end. Either way, there's no doubt you wish you had that time back, valuable time you could've used to buy a nutritious meal at Taco Bell, enjoy a pour of your favorite whiskey, or just watch big booty Latinas and bug fights on TikTok. No, you hung out with these two chuckleheads instead. Now go take a shower and wash off all the guilt, but save some soap because you'll be back. Like an awful train wreck, you can't look away. And like Chad's favorite Western, you can't quit them either. We out.

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