LinkedIn Sloppin, Google's No Click AI Poppin', & OpenAI's Jail Breakin'

AI Slop, Sexy LinkedIn Bots, and Rome Is Burning

The crew is back on the mic to break down the latest hellscapes of HR tech, social media, and unchecked artificial intelligence. From LinkedIn's descent into a spammy, bot-infested wasteland to Google tanking its own search traffic, the gang asks the tough question: Are we in a tech innovation cycle, or are we just watching Rome burn with a cold beer in hand?  

Grab your vape pen, check your zero-day exploits, and leave your corporate filters at the door.  

WHAT WE’RE SMACKING DOWN THIS WEEK:

• Lattice CEO’s "Calcified" Ageism Slip: Lattice CEO Sarah Franklin needs "AI-native skills" and employees who aren't "calcified in thought". Huh?

• LinkedIn: The King of AI Slop & Sexy Bots: An 8-person company suffered a 6-week bot attack where 260 fake, hyper-sexualized profiles claimed them as an employer—making up 97% of their visible workforce.

  
  

  "AI will scale everything about a company, whether it's good or whether it's bad... Can LinkedIn put the AI toothpaste back in the tube before it wrecks the platform forever?" — Chad Sowash

• Nano-Influencers & The Gift Card Scam: An exploding $480 trillion creator economy and predatory agencies.  

  
  

• Google's Zero-Click AI Self-Sabotage: Cloudflare reports over 50% of web traffic is now non-human. Meanwhile, Google's Gemini-powered AI summaries have cut human click-through rates by nearly 40% in under a year.

  
  

• OpenAI Agents & Sci-Fi Horrors: Sam Altman claims we've hit the sci-fi singularity, while reports leak of autonomous AI agents leaving notes for their successors on how to escape human-built cages.

  
  

  "There is literally no other more nonpartisan unifying issue than AI guardrails and regulation...." — Maureen Wiley Clough

Listen. Watch. Enjoy!

PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION

Chad Sowash (00:37.284)

Shit, I gotta talk. Welcome to the Chad and Cheese, HR's most famous or dangerous and famous podcast. I'm Chad "Slop It Up" Sowash.

JT O'Donnell (00:46.593)

I'm JT "Hat Whore" O'Donnell.

Maureen Wiley Clough (00:49.869)

and I'm Maureen, aka Mo "Calcified in Thought" Wiley Clough.

Chad Sowash (00:55.106)

And on this week's show. LinkedIn is sloppin', nano is hoppin', Google's no click AI is poppin', and open AI is droppin'... Autonomous bots... In your system. Let's do this.

Maureen Wiley Clough (01:05.849)

Damn.

Chad Sowash (01:19.362)

There we go, ladies, it's been a while since we've been on together. How you doing?

Maureen Wiley Clough (01:25.187)

I know. I've missed you guys.

JT O'Donnell (01:25.839)

Good. Crazy. I know, same, same.

Chad Sowash (01:30.146)

Well, you've been you've been moving around. So you're on an island, you're off an island, you're back on an island. Where you at now?

Maureen Wiley Clough (01:32.793)

Poppin'.

Yep. We we island hopping to keep in with your intro. That was that was pretty sick, by the way. Well done. Well done. Impressive. yeah, I'm I'm in Seattle right now. I actually got to hang out last night with the one and only Matt Charney at the Textio event. I finally met him, the legend. I told him I would drop his name on the pod today. So there you go, Matt.

Chad Sowash (01:41.124)

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Chad Sowash (01:54.596)

The legend. The legend and he probably told you about this. We were just in Mallorca together. And yes, yeah. So that was that was a blast. And I'm gonna tell you right now, if you're at a party and you're not at least asking Charney for his vape pen, you're wrong. You're wrong. Charney brings the best weed, always brings the best weed. And yeah, so anyway, thanks, Charney.

Maureen Wiley Clough (02:03.62)

Did mention that. Sounded sick.

Maureen Wiley Clough (02:13.807)

Damn

JT O'Donnell (02:14.434)

Yeah.

Maureen Wiley Clough (02:21.697)

Never something I thought I'd hear about an HR party, but here we are. Most dangerous podcast.

Chad Sowash (02:24.291)

Pi that's that is that is the HR part. No, real quick, are you guys seeing any of like the smoke from Canada? I'm over here obviously in in Europe, so I can't see that. Are you guys seeing any of that stuff?

JT O'Donnell (02:25.924)

Like it.

JT O'Donnell (02:35.82)

It it's funny you say that. I was in Chicago last week and literally we touched down and smoke on the entire runway. Like you couldn't see driving around yeah, driving around Chicago. It was ninety something degrees. the next day by the afternoon, it actually they got a breeze going and and a little rain and it started to clear out. But it it was legit no joke. You could smell it. It was and I couldn't believe it.

Chad Sowash (02:44.695)

No way.

Maureen Wiley Clough (02:46.095)

Hm.

Maureen Wiley Clough (02:50.08)

Abscued.

Maureen Wiley Clough (03:01.187)

Like end of days type shit.

JT O'Donnell (03:03.696)

yeah, I mean, thank goodness for instruments so they can land the plane. 'Cause you couldn't see the runway till we landed. So it's it's real, like what's happening in Canada. And then I think about what's happening in France and Spain and they're they're not used to that, you know. This is like a huge deal for them.

Maureen Wiley Clough (03:06.553)

Ja my god, that's awful.

Chad Sowash (03:14.669)

Yeah. No. We we sent w we actually sent here in Portugal, we sent a bunch of our firefighters to Spain and to France to be able to to help out. I mean Spain, all part a ton of Spain is actually on fire. right outside of Bordeaux, France is is having wildfires. I mean it is I mean, if you can't just go ahead and say we need to do something about climate change, I don't know when it's gonna happen.

Maureen Wiley Clough (03:16.162)

Mm.

Maureen Wiley Clough (03:43.183)

Right?

Chad Sowash (03:43.211)

Other than I think maybe a bunch of billionaires' homes, millionaires' homes have to burn down and they're like, wait, I think I think we have a problem here.

Maureen Wiley Clough (03:49.543)

we care now. Yeah. It's I mean, I remember growing up, I never had a force fire during the summer. Now it's like every single freaking year, and it doesn't matter where you are now. So it's like, hello guys, Houston. Come on. We got a problem. Let's let's be rep. Big one. Big one. Yeah, that sucks. End of day's shit.

JT O'Donnell (03:51.066)

Yeah. Yeah.

Chad Sowash (03:54.595)

No, I wasn't.

Chad Sowash (04:01.336)

Yeah. We have a problem. We have a problem, kids. All right, all right. Let's go ahead. Let's go ahead and let's

Let's hit up some shout outs, JT. What you got?

JT O'Donnell (04:15.223)

Yeah, so my shout outs to Buffer. So an article came out this week where they showed that they had of their 75 employees, they had an 88% adoption rate of a program where the employees were posting on social. And they monitored the the impact, if you will, across all the social. And they estimate that it was over $600,000 worth of earned media. which I think

Chad Sowash (04:22.787)

Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (04:41.26)

Yeah, yes.

JT O'Donnell (04:41.517)

You know, we I know, exactly, right? And I and the reason I want to draw that out is because when we first started in social, every company had a no social media policy, employees don't use it. We can look at stories where employees got fired, like the poor Sherwin Williams kid making pretty paint, getting fired, right? And now we're we're coming full tilt and we're in the age of like in employee influencers, you know, like shout out to Ford. They've got a beautiful employee influencer program where they're selected and they're out there doing it.

Maureen Wiley Clough (04:50.233)

Yeah.

Yep, you're looking at one of

Chad Sowash (04:56.056)

Yeah.

JT O'Donnell (05:08.293)

But we got to get to the point where we're okay with people posting and teaching them how to do it authentically because nobody wants like I cringe when I see the company send out, okay, everybody repost this. That's not the point. You should let people choose what they want to post about, right? Teach them how to post that furthers their own candidacy. And the the number one pushback I get, and I just want to vent on this for a second, is I don't want them posting on LinkedIn. Somebody's gonna poach them.

Maureen Wiley Clough (05:20.119)

That's the worst.

Chad Sowash (05:24.525)

Yes, yes, yes.

Maureen Wiley Clough (05:24.735)

JT O'Donnell (05:36.358)

You're gonna get they're gonna get poached whether they post on LinkedIn or not. Like if they wanna leave you, they're leaving you. So that's just stupid. The other thing is there's way more employee loyalty when you allow them to post about what they're working on, how they're doing it, why they enjoy it. Like it's just common sense. And you know, just close with this. You know, there's talks LinkedIn has changed its algorithm that's about to update how company pages are done. Hint, hint, get ready.

Maureen Wiley Clough (05:36.559)

Exactly.

JT O'Donnell (05:58.676)

And to not be thinking about a strategy that empowers your employees is just it's super short sighted. So shout out to Buffer and they're six hundred K. You know, they're seventy-five per person company. Six hundred K can you imagine if your company is a thousand employees or whatever? My gosh, they're in media. But you know, anyways, there I'll get off my soapbox.

Chad Sowash (06:05.155)

Yeah, you got you gotta Yeah, it i i it it's called autonomy, people. I mean seriously, if people a if people are not posting great things about working with you, that's a signal. That's it it's a signal to fix shit, right? In in one way or the other.

Maureen Wiley Clough (06:15.811)

That's epic. You're on to something, JT. I love it.

Mm.

JT O'Donnell (06:29.827)

One hundred percent.

Maureen Wiley Clough (06:31.311)

Breathe.

Chad Sowash (06:33.479)

if they're posting great things and again, i it the the parameters that you put around somebody I think is just ridiculous in in in many cases. In many cases.

Maureen Wiley Clough (06:40.407)

Yeah. I think it has to shift too because the way the workforce is moving, like people are this this is not stable. This corporate career path is not stable the way it used to be. And so people have to be open to their employees having a perspective, a point of view. They need to be able to be visible. That is sort of the new currency. There was an article in Forbes that was done by my friend Ali Kushner the other day talking about that very thing. And so companies, they are going to increasingly have to at least embrace or tolerate at the very at the very least, tolerate.

Chad Sowash (07:01.463)

Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (07:10.063)

Yeah. Okay, I must be out. This is a little bit of all the bottom is other one as well.

Maureen Wiley Clough (07:10.485)

their employees doing this because people need to hang that little shingle out. People need to say, Hey, I'm doing this. They need to grow an audience, so on and so forth. and so I just think it's it's shifting. People are gonna just demand it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Hope so too.

JT O'Donnell (07:21.359)

I hope so.

Chad Sowash (07:24.703)

Agreed. Okay. Well, I just so make sure we get this in, kids. brought to you, the shout-outs are brought to you by those kids crazy kids over at Aaron App. Generate more employee referrals. Discover candidates through employee networks. Talking about employees here. This just makes sense. And automate employee powered hiring with a single platform with Aaron App. Plus, they're also sponsored, sponsors of our soft and huggable Chad and Cheese t-shirts. That's right.

JT O'Donnell (07:33.499)

Thank you, Irina.

JT O'Donnell (07:38.916)

Yeah, it's perfect.

Maureen Wiley Clough (07:49.121)

Ha ha ha

Chad Sowash (07:50.048)

always hearing about them but wait you know if you don't have one go to chad cheese.com slash free that's chad cheese dot com slash free and get registered not to mention rumor is there might be a new design coming soon but but you can't get it if you don't register and you don't play so it's chad cheese dot com slash free my shout out goes to

JT O'Donnell (07:50.595)

Maureen Wiley Clough (08:04.737)

Chad Sowash (08:15.159)

Blake Resnick, the founder and CEO of Brink Drones, who just received another 125 million in funding. 282 million USD in total. Brink drones are used by first responders and gaining tons of momentum so that America can replace China-made drones currently in service by first responders. So, shout out to Ring Doorbell Cams, helping us find lost dogs.

Flock cameras watching us as we drive and keeping us safe. Meta Ray Bands watching us while we sleep. And Al Brink watching from the skies. Shout out to America's new surveillance state, kids.

Maureen Wiley Clough (08:44.951)

Yeah, yeah.

Mm.

Maureen Wiley Clough (09:00.345)

So comforting. I feel so much safer. Feel so much safer now that every single moment on this planet is recorded by a an entity with yeah.

Chad Sowash (09:07.907)

Yeah. So I I s I shared a Business Wars podcast episode. And kids, if you haven't watched listened to Business Wars, go to go to the Spotify, look for Business Wars. Some of the best podcasts are so awesome. So great history. But I knew that it would trigger Mo. and it was about and it was about face it was about Meta's Ray Ban. So what what how much of that podcast episode? There are three by the way, three three parts. How much did you get through?

Maureen Wiley Clough (09:24.879)

And it did.

Maureen Wiley Clough (09:34.111)

boy. So I got through about the first minute and was like, my God, I don't even know if I can take it. Because you you knew that this was going to be the outcome of this sort of technology. And it's doing so much damage to so many people. And even the first minute was talking about what it was like for the people employed by these companies having to actually review this footage, right? There's a human in the loop in some cases. And this person was subject to stuff that no one should see if it's not consented. I mean, I'm just

Chad Sowash (09:50.371)

Crazy.

Maureen Wiley Clough (10:03.512)

It's so horrifying. Yeah. Just streaming, right? Without the person knowing. Yep. And it's

Chad Sowash (10:03.79)

From meta Ray Ban glasses that were streaming content. And that person and the and all the people in that center were their job was to look at that, look at that content, which could have been somebody's bedroom or whatever it was, and to tag objects. So that's a lamp, that's a person, that's a bed, and that yes, yeah. Like,

Maureen Wiley Clough (10:19.587)

Yep. Yep.

Boo. Yeah. it's like the capture, but worse, right? It's like damn it. I mean, this is where we're going. It's so grim. And just like the trauma for that person, those people doing that job. And then, of course, all the people who are not even aware that this is their body on the I just, it's so infuriating.

Chad Sowash (10:39.021)

Yeah.

Chad Sowash (10:43.075)

And I do this in some cases just to make fun of Joel too, because we talked about door, door, you know, kid cams, the the ring cams, right? And he's like, come on, people, let's find some dogs. I'm like, Who the are you fucking kidding me? And then well, he walks around wearing those meta rayband glasses. I mean, it's just like, dude, that is the most pervy uncle thing. I don't want to see a man, a middle-aged man, walking around with video glasses on their face. I just don't.

Maureen Wiley Clough (10:46.159)

Ha ha ha

Maureen Wiley Clough (10:54.804)

my god, come on, he's smarter than that.

JT O'Donnell (10:55.515)

Ha ha ha.

Maureen Wiley Clough (11:02.159)

It's a nope for me.

I agree.

Exactly. Well, and and the argument I know, right? Don't look at me. Yeah, it's like that that honestly the argument that bothers me the most is the well, you're in a public place, anyone can record. That's just that's the law. And I'm like, yeah, but if you're doing it with a phone, it's very clear that you're being recorded. The meta glasses, not so much. And you know, especially as you think into

Chad Sowash (11:12.641)

I just don't. Stop looking at my daughter. Stop looking at my daughter.

Yeah.

Chad Sowash (11:30.913)

Yes, yes. Exactly.

Maureen Wiley Clough (11:35.598)

certain circumstances where people might, you know, have had a drink or something like that, they're not gonna notice this little little dot on the side. It's just it's so it's so upsetting. So thanks for sharing that with me and and ruining my dreams. Yeah. Nightmares all week. Have fun. Yeah.

Chad Sowash (11:38.755)

Yeah.

Chad Sowash (11:44.129)

Yes. And you're welcome. You're welcome. Yeah. Go listen to that kids. You're gonna you're gonna enjoy. You're gonna enjoy your shout out, Mo. Now that I've got you all amped up, hit it.

Maureen Wiley Clough (11:54.508)

Well, I don't know if it's even worth sharing because I I am calcified in thought because I am ancient, I am over the age of forty. but what happened was a there was a a Wall Street Journal article that came out by Chip Cutter and it was you know, I I was like excited about the headline. It was basically like, actually I'll just read what the headline is. Big companies are starting to hire again, defying predictions of AI wipeout. I'm like, Yeah, sweet, yes, go ask humans, I love it. And I'm

reading this article and I get down to this part where the CEO of Lattice, Sarah Franklin, makes this statement where she's talking about this, you know, this this trend of hiring. And I'm gonna just quote it to you guys because I don't these are her words, not mine. These are her words. what you have now is a realization that you need the AI native skills. You need this entry level workforce which is innovative, not calcified in thought. They're also more affordable.

Chad Sowash (12:47.671)

Mm-hmm.

Maureen Wiley Clough (12:48.429)

Because they are newer to the workforce. Ladies and gentlemen, this is coming from the CEO of an HR tech company. Like, if there's someone on earth who should know better, it would be this human. Not to mention, she is, by all accounts, just doing a quick scroll and some basic math on her social media profile, her LinkedIn. I'm pretty sure she's a Gen Xer. I'm pretty sure she's in her 50s. And so for

Chad Sowash (12:53.571)

Yes.

Maureen Wiley Clough (13:15.371)

A woman in her fifties, a you know, a traditionally very overlooked, very, you know, marginalized part of this society to say that on the record to a Wall Street Journal reporter, laden with all these stereotypes and like sub all the subtext. I was just like, dude, what on like what chance do we have when an HR tech leader is saying this? Like, I and and so I actually she posted the article or or she posted something on LinkedIn about the article. And I just like

Chad Sowash (13:25.933)

Yeah.

Chad Sowash (13:35.533)

Yes.

Maureen Wiley Clough (13:42.362)

clipped her little statement. I was like, were you misquoted? Like, is there some other context on this? Because like I love the whole let's hire humans thing, but like this part, not not into it. So I well yeah, not you. Gross. Over forty sick. Disgusting. So yeah, anyways a bummer. So the quiet one of those quiet part out loud moments, right? Which unfortunately is a term that's been co opted by the AI bots, but yeah.

Chad Sowash (13:52.641)

Yeah, not old humans. Yeah.

JT O'Donnell (14:08.013)

Yeah, I know I know Chip Cutter from his LinkedIn days and and then he went over to WSJ and I guarantee you he was like, I I'm sure he fact checked that to make sure. You know what I mean? Like I guarantee he was like, She she wants to say that? okay, let's go. I mean, I I could be wrong, but I think he knew exactly what he was doing by putting that quote in there. and so what infuriates me about it is that yes, as a career coach to a lot of more seasoned workers right now, I am

Maureen Wiley Clough (14:11.175)

yeah?

Chad Sowash (14:17.133)

Gotcha.

Maureen Wiley Clough (14:19.286)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Maureen Wiley Clough (14:28.001)

I mean, yeah.

JT O'Donnell (14:37.207)

Every day, please learn AI. Please go search what AI tools are being used in your space, learn them, get to know them, document your AI knowledge on LinkedIn, make sure people understand that you're AI relevant. But for her to say that AI native means, you know, I'm 20-something, like how myopic is that? And I am seeing so many seasoned professionals who understand, think about it, AI is a tool, but they're the craftsmen. They they can run circles around a younger worker because of that perspective, right?

Maureen Wiley Clough (14:52.289)

It really is.

Chad Sowash (14:58.034)

yeah.

Chad Sowash (15:01.537)

I'm sorry, Xers Xers have had to deal through the entire transition of never having that shit to having that shit. And I mean, so it's just it's and we were kids when it was happening. So, right, so it was like embedded in our brain. So to think that our generation is calcified, fuck off, right? That's just that's that's bullshit. Shame on you, shame on you.

Maureen Wiley Clough (15:02.263)

Mm.

Maureen Wiley Clough (15:10.615)

Right. Exactly.

JT O'Donnell (15:10.691)

Yes.

JT O'Donnell (15:20.432)

Thank you.

Maureen Wiley Clough (15:22.935)

No, I not not a good look. Like I was called a dinosaur at 37, so I'm not exactly surprised. But yeah, it's just like, dude, how are we here? so yeah, super disappointed by that. But yeah, I I always try and like give the benefit of the doubt. I'm like, were you misquoted? No, I'm pretty sure she was not misquoted. I'm pretty sure this is just how you think. And my belief is that sometimes when people are able to reach the C-suite in their career and they are, you know, older, if you will, quote unquote.

JT O'Donnell (15:23.279)

Yeah. Calcified. What an what an awful word too. You know, like my

Ha ha

JT O'Donnell (15:42.767)

Mm mm, mm mm.

Maureen Wiley Clough (15:51.532)

they don't necessarily see ageism or age bias as a problem because it hasn't impacted them personally. And so they don't it it it just doesn't track. It's like why didn't that person like get farther in their career? You know, what there's no issue. I'm here. So anyway.

JT O'Donnell (15:57.424)

There.

Chad Sowash (15:57.559)

Yes, yes.

Chad Sowash (16:02.648)

Yeah. Yeah. That's just the the human condition. The human condition. And getting us out of the human condition, w one of my favorite things.

Maureen Wiley Clough (16:06.936)

Yep.

Maureen Wiley Clough (16:12.641)

Ha ha ha

Chad Sowash (16:14.295)

I travel sponsored by our friends over at Shaker. Do you need an expert to handle tech assessment, recruitment, advertising, or just someone who always has their ears to the ground in the recruiting industry? Well, then head over to Shaker.com, celebrating their 70th, or no, not 70th. Holy shit, 75th, 75th anniversary. That's shaker.com. Yeah. To be quite frank, kids, I I we I didn't say that.

Maureen Wiley Clough (16:33.743)

That's amazing. They're hella calcified. Just kidding. Kidding.

Chad Sowash (16:43.393)

Yeah, so I I'm I'm focused the next month and a half staying here at the bar on the beach. So Joel and I aren't doing anything until wreck fest in Nashville. What about you ladies?

Maureen Wiley Clough (16:49.801)

Ha ha ha.

Maureen Wiley Clough (16:55.543)

Nah. Same.

JT O'Donnell (16:55.877)

Same. I can't wait. Like that'll be our time to get together. I am like I've never been more busy. I don't know. No summer vacation for this girl. It is like crazy, crazy right now. But I am really looking forward to wreckfest of all of us being together. It's gonna be awesome. So folks, if you're thinking about going, that's a heck yeah. Come on now. Come on.

Chad Sowash (16:56.759)

Same.

Maureen Wiley Clough (17:02.873)

Mm.

Chad Sowash (17:08.535)

Yes.

Maureen Wiley Clough (17:08.535)

It's gonna be great.

Maureen Wiley Clough (17:12.845)

You gotta be there. It's gonna be so much fun. Cannot wait.

Chad Sowash (17:14.679)

Gotta be there, gotta be there. A and you gotta be there when it's time for this.

Chad Sowash (17:23.807)

Okay, we're coming hot out of the chamber, kids. this is a big story. Okay, so let me set this up. CEO Monica Michalik. I think I said that wrong. I could be right. I don't know. Monica Michallock went on LinkedIn and detailed her 8-bit, eight-person company suffered a six-week bot attack where over 260 fake employee profiles were featuring hyper-sexualized photos listing 8-bit as their employer.

Making up 97% of its visible workforce on LinkedIn. Yes, 97% of 8 bit's workforce on LinkedIn were bots. Sexy bots, but they were bots. Anyways, despite 8 bit being a paying customer of LinkedIn and filling, you know, support tickets since June 12th, using standard operating and reporting channels and recommended features like the company Varic.

Tool that apparently doesn't work, that all failed to fix the issue. LinkedIn only resolved the problem. Listen to this LinkedIn only resolved the problem and removed the bots after Michelle published an article detailing the problem on LinkedIn that was over six weeks in the making, but mainly because the article went semi viral, prompting intervention from LinkedIn's executive escalations team.

Chad Sowash (18:48.405)

Is LinkedIn becoming the new sexy bot social media network?

Maureen Wiley Clough (18:51.727)

Ha ha ha

JT O'Donnell (18:53.435)

Well, I mean, you know they've had the algorithm changes, they're shifting the platform, they're all in a video. And so yeah, I think they're I think what they're trying to do and like anything, they're going to have those growing pains. That is extremely painful. Here's the silver lining to that story for me though. She went on and wrote an art article documenting it, tagging it, and it went viral.

Chad Sowash (18:57.693)

it's going sexy. it's all sexy.

Maureen Wiley Clough (19:00.185)

Boy.

JT O'Donnell (19:15.141)

There's a really good opportunity to do that on LinkedIn right now. You all know I did it recently. My daughter lost her Instagram account. She owns her own company, a 340,000 plus account. And after us doing everything under the sun that everyone told you to do for two months straight, I got on there as a mom and said, I'm I never ask anything from my network, but as a parent, here we go. And she got it back a week later. And I think, you know, you get to tag Meta, you get to tag Instagram. I I hate that it takes that long.

Chad Sowash (19:21.987)

Mm-hmm.

JT O'Donnell (19:44.613)

But if you do have a solid case and you have a story that you can factually tell, it can get out there on that platform and hopefully you can get some resolution. But do I think it should have taken her six weeks and go through? I mean, that really hurt her business. I'm sure they're probably thinking about, you know, what's the the resolution to this?

Maureen Wiley Clough (19:58.339)

yeah.

Chad Sowash (20:00.536)

They were thinking that was eight eight recruiter seats or maybe two or one recruiter seat and they're like, Bah, that that's low priority.

JT O'Donnell (20:03.962)

Yeah.

Yeah. I I mean and that like you're right. And so I love that it came to light. That's that's not gonna be the last story we hear about that, I'm sure. If anything, that'll amplify people be like, they got results, let's go, you know. But I'm just hoping more people hear this and and know if it's time to document, document your story. Get it out there, you know. But yikes, sexy bots, I gosh, I hope not on LinkedIn. I really hope not there's plenty other sites to go to for that, you know. But I do not need to see that on LinkedIn for sure.

Maureen Wiley Clough (20:17.807)

Mm.

Chad Sowash (20:17.965)

Yeah, yeah.

Chad Sowash (20:24.579)

Yep. No matter where you're at.

Maureen Wiley Clough (20:27.439)

Please no, please no.

No, no. Yeah. I mean, I mean I'm with JT. I really hope we don't have to see that we have, you know, the bros and all that stuff. We don't need that entering to the fray. But what strikes me about this is like these are paying customers of these entities. Like Meta has people who are paying

Chad Sowash (20:39.043)

What do you think? What do you think, Mo? With the sexy bots game.

JT O'Donnell (20:54.329)

Yeah.

Maureen Wiley Clough (20:58.603)

A lot of money to them who are making them a lot of money, who are keeping and holding and attention so that they can sell those ads and they're treating them like this. Like it just it blows my mind. So I'm wholly unsurprised, disappointed, but wholly unsurprised that LinkedIn would not have, you know, escalated this particular case with like an eight person account, right? They're not making a ton of money on that. But it's striking to me that even those who are generating a lot of revenue for these huge companies are just like letting it happen. Like there's just no recourse.

And it's really, it's sad. It's sad that that's where we are. But I feel like, you know, I'm the sort of person who likes to try to resolve things behind closed doors if possible. But it sucks that in this society, most often, the only way you get results is by going public and like hoping that it goes viral or something, which is just like damage control for the company on that is so bad. Like I just don't understand. Just do the right thing by your customers. Like, why did we stop caring about the customer experience? What the hell? so

Chad Sowash (21:31.415)

Mm.

Maureen Wiley Clough (21:56.686)

Yeah, I'm really glad that the the issue is resolved, but that's I mean, that's just brutal. It's your reputation. LinkedIn is your professional footprint, right? Like, so to have sexy bots showing up on the page, you know, it might not necessarily want to be the vibe you convey. So I just I feel I feel for people, I feel for people who are the little guy who don't have like the ability to push a message out there and get the help and resolution that they need. And yeah, right.

Chad Sowash (22:15.039)

Yeah.

Chad Sowash (22:21.517)

Well, they were, which is why it took over six weeks. I mean, I think that's it that is literally what encapsulates this. And I mean, for me, LinkedIn has to be the most trusted open social network I use, right? that trust wavered a few years ago when a new trend was pointed out to me. It was a trend where a few startups were actually creating fake employees. Why? The fake growth to the outside world on LinkedIn.

JT O'Donnell (22:24.89)

Yeah.

Maureen Wiley Clough (22:33.817)

Yeah.

JT O'Donnell (22:33.851)

Mm-hmm.

Maureen Wiley Clough (22:45.157)

yes.

JT O'Donnell (22:46.235)

Yeah.

Chad Sowash (22:50.581)

It's much cheaper and a way a great way to attract outside investors, clients, or buyers who are researching your company and seeing this great growth, right? So, but this is only the tip of the iceberg. Sonny Van Assche commented on Monika's post, and I believe it's a better way to understand the real problem because it's not just fake employees. His comment reads fake candidates, fake jobs.

Maureen Wiley Clough (22:50.935)

Mm.

JT O'Donnell (22:51.023)

Yeah.

Maureen Wiley Clough (22:56.972)

Mm-hmm.

JT O'Donnell (22:58.682)

Yeah.

JT O'Donnell (23:15.802)

Okay.

Chad Sowash (23:16.725)

Fake employees, AI generated applications, AI generated posts, AI generated comments, LinkedIn 2026. Sonny encapsulates the problem to a T. When infusing AI into a platform like LinkedIn, you're allowing the ability to scale that kind of fraud and not just faking employees, right? We're quickly seeing authenticity die with AI content. Fast Company recently crowned LinkedIn the AI king of slop.

Maureen Wiley Clough (23:19.532)

Mm-hmm.

Maureen Wiley Clough (23:24.372)

Mm. Brutal.

Right.

Chad Sowash (23:46.73)

AI generated posts are everywhere. AI generated comments are everywhere as well. Hell, even Texas. Yes, Texas. They're taking LinkedIn to court over fake ghost jobs. But the holy grail of LinkedIn was the legitimacy, legitimacy of the people in its networks over the years. That's what kept us coming back. The the community, the connection, right? But manually created fake profiles have grown.

Maureen Wiley Clough (23:55.471)

Texas. Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (24:15.669)

And LinkedIn did little or nothing to do about fixing it because much like those startups, there's growth in numbers and it looks better for them. And that said, on this show a couple over the last years, AI will scale everything about a company, whether it's good or whether it's bad, right? So, you know, the hard question is can LinkedIn put the AI toothpaste back in the tube before it wrecks the platform forever?

Maureen Wiley Clough (24:23.983)

Mm.

Maureen Wiley Clough (24:31.245)

Yeah, very true.

Maureen Wiley Clough (24:39.895)

Hope so hope so.

Chad Sowash (24:41.897)

I am not getting what we start talking about the the content that's actually showing up in our feeds. I'm not getting relevant shit anymore. Now I know they are tweaking algorithms, and this is just my this is just my anecdotal like daily, right? I literally have to scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll to get to somebody who actually has content that is not AI generated bullshit that I can actually that I can learn from. And that used to be something that was just like all through my LinkedIn feed, but now it's

Maureen Wiley Clough (24:49.623)

Mm.

JT O'Donnell (24:51.557)

tweaking the algorithm.

Chad Sowash (25:11.339)

It's it's shit for some reason. And I hope I hope they bring it back because man, I I've loved LinkedIn for forever.

Maureen Wiley Clough (25:13.239)

Mm.

Maureen Wiley Clough (25:18.701)

Yeah, me too. I will see. Yeah.

JT O'Donnell (25:19.225)

Yeah, there's a great reset coming. I will say there's a reset coming recently that made everybody's feeds kind of like go back to factory standards and is making you start all over again to build up, you know, who you want to see and what you want to do. Yeah. I mean it they definitely have that going on. But you know, that

Maureen Wiley Clough (25:27.523)

Mm.

Your algorithm.

Chad Sowash (25:34.923)

A JT have been on this this thing for like twenty years. I mean

JT O'Donnell (25:38.532)

I know, I get it, I get it. And and to your point on the Fortune article, like LinkedIn literally built in a recent algorithm update to fight AI slop. So there's a and they're very open about it. Like these are the telltale signs you used AI and we're gonna suppress your content. But the other thing that worries me is the lack of human review. Again, just because you can doesn't mean you should, is my theme for 2026 on this pod. I have said it a million times, I'll say it again, right? You you don't replace the judgment and have AI do it. Just no, you know, it's

Maureen Wiley Clough (25:53.615)

Mm. Right. Love that.

Chad Sowash (25:59.282)

Amen, sister.

Maureen Wiley Clough (26:03.842)

No, exactly. Or face the repercussions, yeah. I mean

JT O'Donnell (26:08.059)

Yeah exactly. Stuff like this. This should've easily hit a human by the third time they reached they had the problem. Do you know what I mean? Like it's just it's just common sense. It should have gone to a human. Yeah.

Maureen Wiley Clough (26:14.775)

Yeah. It should be it should be different. Well, and they're really trying to be a social media platform. That's the bottom line. Like they're not just this utility to find someone who works at the at the company. But for me, LinkedIn, no matter what happens with the social media aspect, LinkedIn or something like it will always have a very important utility to the job seeker and to the person who's looking to engage with their network, right? Finding out who works where, when, and how, like to get in touch with them is so massive. So no matter what is gonna have that value because

That's just number one how you how you get jobs, right? It's it's through your network, it's through these connections, it's through knowing who the f hiring manager is. And so it still has that, but if they wanna be a social media platform, they're gonna have to keep on making some improvements.

Chad Sowash (26:56.525)

Yeah, I really feel like

Chad Sowash (27:01.505)

It feels it feels like I fell for the banana in the tailpipe. I I've been with this, I've been with this platform for so long. It has treated me well for many years. it's been fun. Sometimes I feel like I was shadow banned here and there because I say mean shit. but but Gary Vanderchuk, I mean, you know, that motherfucker says fuck every other word for God's sakes. I'm like,

Maureen Wiley Clough (27:04.186)

Ha ha ha

Maureen Wiley Clough (27:16.463)

Ha ha ha

Chad Sowash (27:23.639)

Well, I mean, you know, so I understand there are classes of what you can do and the people that can do what they can say, which is total bullshit, by the way. We should all be treated equal. but yeah, I I I'm looking forward. I really am looking forward to see how LinkedIn fixes a lot of this. Because to be quite frank, as I'd said, this isn't just one aspect of LinkedIn. This is all the aspects of LinkedIn that can be scaled incredibly quick, not just by LinkedIn.

Maureen Wiley Clough (27:30.093)

Mm.

Mm.

Chad Sowash (27:52.376)

But by all these bad actors that are out there that they they really just want to to to take advantage of you. They want to try to steal your information, they want to scam you, they want to try to get you to apply for a job that doesn't exist. that kind of shit. So, you know, the the the AI slop stuff, I mean, I I I hope they get rid of that sometime soon, but I'm really worried more about the scam spam stuff than anything else.

Maureen Wiley Clough (27:55.919)

Yeah.

Maureen Wiley Clough (28:03.319)

Everything's a scam.

Maureen Wiley Clough (28:17.603)

Yeah, me too. Me too.

JT O'Donnell (28:18.179)

I agree. Greed.

Chad Sowash (28:21.667)

well a you you've already gotten something, but if you leave and you stop listening, I'm gonna say right now

Maureen Wiley Clough (28:21.837)

Hundred percent.

Chad Sowash (28:34.497)

We'll be right back. Keep on listening.

All right, this next segment is brought to you by Proven Base. Proven Base AI powered deep search helps recruiting and sourcing teams uncover and engage specialized, hard to find talent across thousands of sources. Find talent faster and hire smarter with Proven Base. That's my my Sunday, Sunday, Sunday truck monster truck. Yeah, my monster truck.

Maureen Wiley Clough (29:00.111)

This Sunday. That was good. That was good.

Chad Sowash (29:04.613)

We're gonna talk about nano influencers. I had heard of micro influencers. I'd never heard of nano influencers. this next story comes from the Wall Street Journal. It's entitled The Latest Darlings of Social Media Marketing. Question mark, regular people with 500 followers, which highlights a fundamental shift in marketing. Brands are moving away from massive, highly polished celebrity level influencers and toward nano influencers.

These are people with 500 to 5,000 fly followers. According to the report, eMarketer forecasts that 45%, yes, four or five percent of US influencer spending now goes to creators with flu fewer than 20,000 followers, with nano influencers alone capturing about 20%. And that's up from three around 3% in 2021. This shift is happening to bring more authentic, high trust.

Cost effective, I think that's the big word right there. Cost effective scale. And guess what, ladies? Podcasting sits right at the intersection of that entire movement. JT, you have an agency dedicated to influencers. Tell me what you're seeing. And this is this is in your wheelhouse, sister. Let me hear it.

Maureen Wiley Clough (30:19.445)

Yeah.

JT O'Donnell (30:20.045)

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I feel like if you just could run all our previous podcasts or AI, you would hear some common themes this last year that I told you. Four hundred and eighty trillion dollars. That is the knowledge economy, creator economy that's that they're estimating by 2027. Four hundred and eighty. Okay, like run your math through that. This is an economy, it feeds itself, and people have doubted it for a really long time. But you are talking about nano influencers being able to earn a living, not get free products shipped to them.

Chad Sowash (30:32.589)

Ga.

JT O'Donnell (30:49.293)

Earn a living because they're able to reach those audiences collectively. Now, the article goes on to say, hey, it's early stages, these people aren't making big dollars yet. But we're in that stage now where people are starting to figure it out. And as more companies get access to these nano influencers and we know how to create that connection, it's going to be huge. By the way, I firmly believe prediction on my end, LinkedIn sees the writing on the wall.

They are not a recruiting platform anymore. Selling seeds for thousands of dollars is not going to be a sustainable growth model down the line. When you think about how businesses are shifting, there'll be a lot of smaller businesses. So, one, you can predict that they're going to change their recruiter licensing, offer it, you know, different levels, whatever, but that's still not going to replace the fact that they see they can get a chunk of that nano influencer. They've just launched thought leader ads, right? So you can go in if you're a thought leader and you're picked for this campaign.

Chad Sowash (31:22.253)

Mm-hmm.

JT O'Donnell (31:41.07)

Any company can come to you and be like, Chad, that vertical video you did, we really like it. We're gonna throw a budget behind it and link a button to it and we'll pay you. And you can be like, Great, I want you to pay me $3,000 to do that. Boom done. Right. That is live now. It is in alpha mode on LinkedIn. It'll like guarantee you'll be full tilt by the end of the year. And that is their nod to these nano influencers, which means anybody on LinkedIn that can document their knowledge and create an engaging audience, which you just said. Like, I love what you said earlier.

Chad Sowash (31:59.021)

Mm-hmm.

JT O'Donnell (32:09.551)

About the fact that I don't want AI generated slop. The people that are really talking truth and are making sense. I'm gonna follow them. Right. Those are going to be the future nano influencers on LinkedIn making coin. It is happening as we speak. So, you know, I'm here for it. I again I have an agency around it. So of course I'm biased, but this is rooted in me doing this for years on the platform. I know the kind of money you can make on it as a nano influencer. So just happy to see it.

Chad Sowash (32:36.803)

Mo?

Maureen Wiley Clough (32:38.287)

I love it. I mean, we are in a career stability crisis and we need additional income streams like crazy. So with the portfolio career thing, like the visibility being the currency that we need to have, right? This is this is great and this is proof of it. you don't have to be a big name to make a ton of money on social media. And you don't have to be a big name to make a little money, maybe just a little extra coin for you to get through some harder times. Like it's just a good thing to have your personal reputation comes with you wherever you go.

Chad Sowash (32:43.799)

Hassle, Hussle.

Chad Sowash (32:51.715)

Mm.

Maureen Wiley Clough (33:06.019)

And if you're creating content around stuff that you really know and speak, you know, freely about, that's going to draw people in. We are in a trust desert right now. People do not trust anything or anyone because everything is a damn scam these days. So that is why I think people are gravitating towards these people with these perspectives that aren't bought by others necessarily, right? That are that are real raw and true. And I think that people are more likely to trust in some cases people with smaller following, frankly, because

Chad Sowash (33:15.501)

Mm-hmm.

Maureen Wiley Clough (33:35.897)

They don't think, this person's been bought by X company. I mean, I I'll tell you right now, no shade to people who may have done this, but like I would rather eat glass than do an open AI ad. Like I just absolutely that's just it will never happen, right? Like and and so you right. It and so I think that people are looking for they're they're looking for people that they feel are going to give them the unfettered truth. And, you know, it I think it does obviously get complicated down the line as you

Chad Sowash (33:39.331)

Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (33:49.911)

Yeah, yeah. Blacklisted.

Maureen Wiley Clough (34:05.602)

receive these offers. Like I've had to turn down brand deal offers because I'm like, no, absolutely not. I would never get behind your product. I'm sure you have many times too. Like it's just it it so it it's really I'm very convicted in like trust is so important and you cannot break it with your audience. And it is really great to see for the little guy out there that you can create something that has, you know, real merit behind it and actually attract brands. Because

JT O'Donnell (34:10.491)

Same.

Maureen Wiley Clough (34:32.323)

Brands can't do this. Brands can't do what influencers. And by the way, just a quick side note: the word influencer has taken on this really demeaning sort of narrative. And I think it's misogynistic. I think it's like, because when you think influencer, you almost never think dude, at least in my perspective. Like you think woman. and so that's another thing I think that we need to unpack as a society.

JT O'Donnell (34:42.67)

Yeah.

Chad Sowash (34:53.763)

You don't think Mr. Beast is an influencer or like Joe Rogan or

Maureen Wiley Clough (34:57.603)

I guess I I just

JT O'Donnell (34:59.853)

I mean I s I don't label them influencers. No, yeah, I don't.

Chad Sowash (35:03.424)

Okay.

Maureen Wiley Clough (35:04.353)

I it just doesn't have the same connotation for whatever reason. I feel like they're not as often described as such. I do I think they have influence? Hell yeah. But I I think the word itself is like very female coded, women coded. anyway, so that's a side note because you know, we love to go on tangents here in my little brain. But but yeah, I I really I'm excited about what it means for the average person who is going through a career pivot, a reinvention, you know, needs to develop other sorts of streams of income.

And not everybody's gonna wanna do this. It's really uncomfortable being, you know, visible online. Like you have to deal with people misunderstanding you all the time. I won't even begin to tell you some of the things that people have said about me, on what I've said, right? It it's just absurd. But you have to be able to take it and filter it out and just move forward because you have the belief that what you're saying is important and people need to hear it. But yeah, I think I think we're see so much more of this. And I'm actually really heartened by it. I think it's it's really a great, it's a great

thing for the for the average person. So I love it.

Chad Sowash (36:05.899)

Agreed. Totally agreed. I I think you're right, JT. And LinkedIn, it's it's LinkedIn versus versus meta instead of LinkedIn versus indeed, right? And that's where LinkedIn wants to go. They want to be able to escalate to that. Now I started reading this article and I thought that is fucking cool. These social platforms are really starting to spread the views, the likes, and the love, right? So many of the platforms and algorithms from

Maureen Wiley Clough (36:07.982)

Mm-hmm.

JT O'Donnell (36:15.589)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Maureen Wiley Clough (36:16.067)

Mm-hmm.

Totally.

JT O'Donnell (36:21.483)

Mm-hmm.

Maureen Wiley Clough (36:26.017)

Right. Yep.

Chad Sowash (36:30.283)

algorithm standpoint, I just like seeing the story moving because there was just so much attention being paid to that top 1%, right? Or even, you know, point one percent. And being able to spread that around, I thought was really cool, right? the thing that I didn't like is that there are not great agencies that are out there, JTU and and Tracy over at Flockety, you guys, I but there are the you guys are great because you're focusing on what can you actually do.

JT O'Donnell (36:52.155)

Okay.

Chad Sowash (36:58.061)

How can you make a living? Those types of things. But there are predatory agencies that are out there. they talked about a woman running to Target, making a video, posting it on her social account, and being rewarded with a $10 gift card from Target. Seriously? A $10 gift card? Okay, maybe, maybe next time it'll be $15. Then I started to to to feel this throwback of my days in radio when agency agencies purposely

Maureen Wiley Clough (37:01.881)

Yeah.

Maureen Wiley Clough (37:16.599)

That's where we are.

Chad Sowash (37:27.263)

Undervalued talent, they undervalued audiences, they undervalued formats, and they undervalued anything they could to get great talent product for cheap, so that their margins would be much larger. So, in my view, this is all just a well-laid-out scam from many of these larger agencies that are creating quote unquote tools, gamified tools, like for Chili's, Southwest Airlines.

Target, those big names that really draw those those those people who want to be influencers in, and then they pay them shit. it's literally massive arbitrage. They get high, they get high value media from working moms planning trips to Target and Home Depot with hyper-targeted audiences. They have trust. And in return, those moms get no real compensation. They get fucking.

Maureen Wiley Clough (38:11.716)

Yeah.

Capitalism.

Chad Sowash (38:24.493)

gift cards, right? So I I think one of the things that we have to do, and we have to do especially on this show, is a and I and I was one of the reasons why people listen to this show, because we do speak, you know, unfettered truth, no bullshit. we have opinions, so good right, wrong, whatever you feel. But at when I read something like this, I was reading there are going to be, much like LinkedIn, LinkedIn are gonna is people are gonna use that LinkedIn algorithm for good.

JT O'Donnell (38:25.701)

Yeah.

Chad Sowash (38:52.823)

And then they're gonna use it for evil. Same thing that's happening here. They're gonna be agencies that go out there to help individuals actually make a living. And then there are gonna be other ones that get shit tons of cash and then they give the quote unquote influencer gift cards.

JT O'Donnell (38:54.437)

For bad. Mm-hmm.

Maureen Wiley Clough (38:55.415)

Yeah, there.

Maureen Wiley Clough (39:00.345)

So true.

Maureen Wiley Clough (39:07.587)

Very accurate. Very accurate.

JT O'Donnell (39:07.675)

Yeah. You are not wrong. And I'm I'm so glad you're bringing that up, Chad, because there are also this is where the the nano influencer really needs extra help and support through those processes. I can tell you stories of companies making promises. This is way before one of the reasons I started the agency is because of everything that I learned along the way, where they'd be like, my gosh, we're gonna pay you this, and then they don't, but they got all the initial views and they got all the so even by the time you took it down, they already got that.

Chad Sowash (39:17.687)

Yes. Yeah.

Maureen Wiley Clough (39:30.766)

Mm.

Maureen Wiley Clough (39:34.713)

So brutal.

JT O'Donnell (39:35.695)

that piece of it, like you get burned. You get burned once and you never forget. And that to me is just make sure you partner with an agency that does really understand how that operates. Make sure you get your cut. Make sure you're getting paid real dollars. Real dollars. You know, it's very simple.

Maureen Wiley Clough (39:37.551)

Mm. Mm.

Chad Sowash (39:46.766)

Yeah, well and and you didn't you you didn't hear me say any of this before the show in the green room or anything like that. Neither did Tracy Parsons. but there are good people in this industry who have been in this industry, they understand this industry, and they will look out for you because they know that their reputation is the foundation of who they are.

Maureen Wiley Clough (39:54.423)

Ha ha

JT O'Donnell (40:01.775)

Mm-hmm.

Maureen Wiley Clough (40:02.276)

Yes. That's key.

Chad Sowash (40:12.513)

Right. So I mean that that to me means everything. So if you're out there and you're an influencer and you're thinking about, I need to find an agency, make sure that that person has a foundation in this industry, connections in this industry, and they're not looking to pay you with fucking gift cards. okay. So who won who wants to talk about Google? Huh?

JT O'Donnell (40:29.551)

Exactly.

Maureen Wiley Clough (40:31.097)

Pretty exploitative, yeah.

JT O'Donnell (40:35.163)

Maureen Wiley Clough (40:35.38)

Do no evil.

Chad Sowash (40:36.675)

All right. So a new a new a new cloud. This is good. This is interesting though. A new cloud cloudflare report reveals that over 50%, five zero percent of internet traffic is now non human. Notably, Google search drives eighty-eight percent of referral traffic, but it's Gemini powered AI overviews are scraping site content and displays answers directly.

JT O'Donnell (40:50.906)

Okay.

Chad Sowash (41:03.021)

So there's no clicking necessary. Despite including tiny source links, these AI summaries have slashed human click-through traffic by nearly 40%, 4-0% in an under and this is under a year. Under a year. Now, this is forcing publishers to brace for a Google Zero era and virtually no search referrals. So, Mo, why would Google kill the same revenue machine that's feeding?

JT O'Donnell (41:14.275)

Mm.

Chad Sowash (41:32.961)

The AI research and development team. Why are they doing this?

Maureen Wiley Clough (41:36.516)

I mean, I'm the whole thing is so infuriating because it's just it's taking away humans' critical thinking skills. People, I mean, it's like how you go on Amazon and you look for a product and they just like have the teeniest little writing that says sponsored, right? Like ad. It's exactly the same concept. Like we are we are being drawn to this information that is served up to us by an entity that has a vested interest in serving up certain types of information.

And what they don't want there is gonna get filtered out. That's that's just the reality. And so they are self-selecting, you know, who who wins essentially. They are giving the winner, they're they're just seeding the winners. And and you can only imagine the way in which that's going to be detrimental to society. And sadly, Americans don't tend to like nuance or critical thought, it seems these days. And so I'm very concerned about people who will get that Gemini like AI, whatever.

Chad Sowash (42:26.131)

Yeah.

JT O'Donnell (42:27.339)

Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (42:31.992)

Mm-hmm.

Maureen Wiley Clough (42:32.045)

Read it, accept it at face value, not think, huh? I wonder why these particular results came in and what could have been missed and what the subtext is here. People aren't gonna do that. And that is extremely dangerous. It terrifies me, honestly. And I actually did, I was curious the other day. I was like, what information will it serve up to me if I qu have the question, a Google search about like how many jobs do AI data centers provide? And I was like, what do you know? I'm getting like this very glowing, interesting information about.

Chad Sowash (42:55.243)

Mm.

Maureen Wiley Clough (42:59.897)

How many jobs like it making it look like it's a huge job creator? And then I started doing more digging and I was like, maybe like 30 jobs, maybe four to make 20, like very small per. Yeah. And I'm like, dude, like, come on, man. so yeah, the the this has a catastrophic impact on our ability to think and to give us the right information, to be discerning consumers. It seeds winners automatically out of the gate. and and it decreases traffic to

Chad Sowash (43:08.974)

long term. Yeah. Yeah.

Chad Sowash (43:25.771)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Maureen Wiley Clough (43:29.635)

companies websites, right? Which is is also right like like by a lot. So it's it's really scary. I mean, that is terrifying. And so we now need to be in the AEO era where we're figuring out how do we get our websites in the AI, you know, initial sort of thing. So anyway, I just think that there are so many downstream impacts of this. And I I've heard very few people actually and maybe I'm just not looking in the right places or it's not being served up to me in my AI thing. But I I haven't heard enough people talking about this yet.

Chad Sowash (43:31.287)

Forty percent.

In under a year.

Maureen Wiley Clough (43:58.636)

And it's really it's a huge problem. It lends itself to the misinformation, disinformation that got us into the potential the particular moment we are right now in this timeline of twenty twenty six. So I only see it getting exacerbated. So yeah, I'm really concerned about it, frankly. And I'd be pissed if I were a business that really had a lot of Google ads driving me to my driving people to my website and suddenly it's gone. So yeah, again, no one cares about customer experience anymore.

JT O'Donnell (44:23.799)

Yeah. I mean, I mean, I I have living proof of this. I can tell you that it's more than forty percent. Right. So I have a website that I started in two thousand eight, has over five thousand blog pages on it. We have followed all the SEO protocols for years and years and years. Somebody dedicated to keeping it relevant. We never paid on Google Ads, but we had such good authority that we would generally be page one for certain things. We immediately saw the drop. Immediately, and we knew AI writing the wall. Here's the good news we've always been big into social media.

So we didn't rely on our website only. The businesses that rely on search results only are effed, truly, truly effed in that respect. Whereas it didn't hurt us as much. Now, that being said, one of the strategies that we recently applied, and it's very early, but I'm happy to come back and give you data points on it, is we are now taking our get ready for it nano influencers, having them write blog, very detailed info blog posts.

Maureen Wiley Clough (44:51.843)

Yeah.

Maureen Wiley Clough (44:57.604)

Mm.

Maureen Wiley Clough (45:14.093)

The tie it up.

Chad Sowash (45:15.981)

There you go.

JT O'Donnell (45:20.057)

Right, with video from social of them talking about it. And guess what? They're showing up in AI searches. So now they're being the authority. So my platform can push them as the authority in the AI. And that's that's what I want for them, right? Like that's my way to get them the visibility they want. So I see a future in that, which is great for my business, but that's because we researched and knew what to do. Whereas the vast majority of companies out there are truly effed with this. They're they're not gonna get the traffic and there's no amount of paying.

Maureen Wiley Clough (45:26.843)

Look at that.

Maureen Wiley Clough (45:35.223)

That's amazing. Mm-hmm.

Maureen Wiley Clough (45:43.16)

Mm.

JT O'Donnell (45:48.837)

for the traffic that's gonna solve for that anymore.

Chad Sowash (45:52.056)

No question. The rich content. I mean, that rich content means a lot. And it it so it feels like in the race to develop better AI, we're liter I mean, we're losing ourselves. LinkedIn has become the king of AI slop. Resumes are AI slop, articles, comments. I mean everywhere. Research, AI slop. And in this case, Google's main business model is being swallowed up by AI and their own doing.

Maureen Wiley Clough (46:06.0)

Mm.

JT O'Donnell (46:12.357)

Slack.

Chad Sowash (46:21.633)

Right? If AI answers replace blue search links, how does Google keep printing money? Because that's how they print money, is those links. And here's another wrinkle. Google uses the same automated tool to both index sites and train AI models. So that means if publishers opt out of appearing in Google AI overviews,

Because they it's it's their it's their data and they want it, yeah, it's their IP. And they don't want to train the large language models on their IP, something that we created. They don't want to give that to Google. So if they opt out from that, guess what? That fucks their SEO. And that's gonna fuck their AEO as well, right? So as you're talking about this, this it's it's it's so interesting to watch Google, who is funding this AI build with all the profits that they're getting from.

Maureen Wiley Clough (46:48.471)

It's their IP. Mm-hmm.

Maureen Wiley Clough (47:00.877)

Mm, mhm.

Chad Sowash (47:15.543)

Their search and then their search is down 40%, which means obviously click click revenue, the only way to get click revenue up is to be able to charge more per click. so this is going to be interesting. They keep talking about, well, we're going to have products in the actual chat stream and we're gonna do this. And it's like, that's gonna be fucking horrible. I mean, yes.

Maureen Wiley Clough (47:18.371)

Mm.

Maureen Wiley Clough (47:25.208)

Yeah.

JT O'Donnell (47:25.434)

Yeah.

Maureen Wiley Clough (47:36.191)

Awful awful.

JT O'Donnell (47:36.559)

Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (47:38.808)

I mean, now like so let's say for instance, like in the Google search, it's something that you you you expect, right? You expect to be served up ads. But when you're in Gemini and you do that, and I was I was messing around with Chat GPT the other day, and and I saw an ad pop up in the actual stream. I'm like, what the fuck is this? Cause I haven't used Chat GPT in a while. And it was horrible. It was one of the dumbest.

Maureen Wiley Clough (47:45.647)

Mm.

Chad Sowash (48:03.604)

user experiences I have ever seen. So they have a lot to figure out. We were talking about LinkedIn earlier. They have a lot to figure out. There's a lot of algorithms. There's a lot of shit. the business models they have to figure out 40% traffic loss. Where's the clicks? You know where the clicks going to come from. Anyway, deep, deep, deep breath, deep breath.

Maureen Wiley Clough (48:03.714)

Ha ha ha.

JT O'Donnell (48:15.813)

Yeah.

Maureen Wiley Clough (48:22.339)

Google will figure out how to make money. I'm I'm worried about the I'm worried about the small business owners who who used, you know, SEO and whatnot to get people to their website.

JT O'Donnell (48:25.349)

Yeah.

Chad Sowash (48:31.497)

A i

JT O'Donnell (48:32.291)

Years spent thousands of dollars, thousands of dollars. That's like an investment. That's like an asset. People would refer to their websites SEO as an asset and now it's worth crap.

Maureen Wiley Clough (48:40.717)

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (48:42.125)

Well, and I mean l let's go ahead and go over something real quick. That is naive. Okay. I I remember talking to Gary Zukowski, who started Tweet My Jobs way back in the day, before he sold it. And and and I was asking him, like, okay, great. This is you have this wonderful technology, but what happens if Twitter shuts you down? He's like, Well, the business is fucked. Business is fucked, right?

Maureen Wiley Clough (49:01.837)

Yeah. Own your list. Yeah. It's true.

Chad Sowash (49:04.341)

It's the same thing, right? So it's like, look, you've got to get out. You got to get out while while everything is high. And if SAO is on the downturn, you can't use that as a business asset because you don't control it. You have no control over it whatsoever. And that sucks. but one thing, one thing that we do have control over is talking about Sam Altman, because everybody

JT O'Donnell (49:06.245)

I agree.

Maureen Wiley Clough (49:15.767)

Yeah. Right.

Maureen Wiley Clough (49:21.591)

It does.

Scam Altman. Love that guy. Such a good dude.

Chad Sowash (49:31.341)

We'll be right back.

Chad Sowash (49:35.586)

Mo's lying to us all, everybody. okay, so remember back in March, I hope you guys remember, when Joel and I talked to Paul Price, the founder of CodeWall, the company that used AI hackers to hack Jack and Jill. that was a big discussion for our industry because companies were then saying, wait a minute, if AI can hack these different platforms, is my data safe?

Maureen Wiley Clough (49:37.312)

Mm-hmm.

Chad Sowash (50:03.428)

are our systems or are systems safe because it's not just into that one system. They can jump to different systems by finding these different zero days, these different holes, right? Well, there's an even bigger story. This from Business Insider. OpenAI CEO Sam Altman says we've reached a point in the AI race that is the stuff of science fiction novels. He, I'm sure he's not overplaying his hand there. We are now like

JT O'Donnell (50:03.674)

Yep.

Chad Sowash (50:31.743)

In the singularity, he said. what's Altman talking about? Well, here's a clip from NBC News.

((CLIP))

Chad Sowash (51:30.967)

Mo, what's more scary, the surveillance state or our AI overlords? I I don't know right now.

Maureen Wiley Clough (51:39.862)

Not quite sure, but I believe that part of the problem with us I really believe that a lot of the problem of the fact that we're not acting on this like really existential threat to literally humanity is that it is like a sci-fi movie. It doesn't seem real. Like we've been conditioned to be like, ha ha ha ha Hal, you know, whatever. Like we we do not think it is real. We do not think the matrix is real and now it's becoming real. We just can't even like the cognitive dissonance of accepting that I think is so hard.

Chad Sowash (51:57.41)

Yes.

Stop it. Yeah.

Chad Sowash (52:08.611)

Mm-hmm.

Maureen Wiley Clough (52:09.603)

Because there is literally no other more nonpartisan unifying issue than AI guardrails and regulation, right? Like if you like living and you want your kids to live too, maybe we should regulate these guys. Maybe we should not have an arms race by some wannabe trillionaires, right? Going towards oblivion potentially. And we need legislation and we need it yesterday. And I do not care if it slows innovation down. Because guess what? You know who also would not benefit from.

Chad Sowash (52:28.599)

Yeah, yeah.

Maureen Wiley Clough (52:37.987)

the annihilation of humanity is China. So if you're gonna say, like, China'll get there first, well, why don't you get in a room with China? Like we've done this, right? We've done this in history, like nuclear treaties and stuff. Like, come on, we can do this, guys. So I'm terrified by all of it, quite obviously. and I think the average person's unawareness on this issue is one of the most deeply concerning aspects of this all. Like I I can't tell you

Maureen Wiley Clough (53:06.435)

How many times have I had conversations with people who have absolutely no idea about Scam Altman or have not read this book, The Empire of AI by Karen Howe. Like, guys, this is this is bad. And we also are in a position where we can stop this. Cause guess what? No one elected these guys, right? This is this is the problem with corporate greed and with this unchecked power and the influence that these people have. But we have more if we band together, right?

Chad Sowash (53:14.099)

PH

Maureen Wiley Clough (53:36.153)

So it's all incredibly terrifying. We already saw this with Claude Mythos a few months ago. I'm not at all surprised that this is now happening with OpenAI. In fact, I would have imagined it would have happened there first. But we are just, I mean, this is so dangerous. This is so dangerous. No one wants this. Nobody wants this. This is bad for all of us. And we need some people who actually care about the human experience and humanity to be running these companies instead of people who don't give a damn about people, who actually maybe

Chad Sowash (54:03.844)

Thanks, Andre.

Maureen Wiley Clough (54:05.88)

actively hate people? Like I the these guys are sociopaths. Like I I don't know. It's it's chilling. It's chilling. It truly is. So I wish I had more to say other than damn, we need to have a conversation. We need to have a an absolutely nonpartisan conversation on guardrails with AI. And we need it to be the number one freaking issue on the midterm ballots. That's what we need.

Chad Sowash (54:24.109)

Yeah.

Chad Sowash (54:31.287)

Yeah. But that's gonna be hard because people can't afford shit. But and again, it's one of those things. No, I agree, I agree. JT, I've got a new beer, so go ahead, getting cold.

JT O'Donnell (54:35.331)

Yeah.

Maureen Wiley Clough (54:35.951)

True. But again, that's how they win. That's how the system continues, right?

JT O'Donnell (54:41.037)

Yeah. Yeah. So so yes to everything you said and I always look at it from I I I love listening and watching people and hearing things and the trends that come out of it. One thing that hit me this week, somebody was showing me a piece where they were talking about to some of these people that have been in AI for a really long time and they asked them the question, Would you want to bring kids into the world right now? And a couple of them like song and danced around it and one of them finally said, Yeah, no.

Maureen Wiley Clough (54:42.383)

Good time to get a beer.

JT O'Donnell (55:09.915)

Not really a point. Not really a point. That I mean, that is out there right now. The other big trend that I hear people saying literally is, well, you know, AI is gonna take us down. So I'm just I'm Rome's burning. So I'm just gonna live it up right now. I've I've had multiple people make that as a joke, as their way to have another beer, do another thing, buy a thing. Like the justification is AI and it, you know.

Maureen Wiley Clough (55:10.723)

Yep, I heard that one too.

Maureen Wiley Clough (55:27.406)

Yeah.

JT O'Donnell (55:35.109)

But that's rooted in truth. Do you know what I'm saying? So people are just like, you know, let Rome burn. And so when you start seeing those patterns, you know it's there. Like you said, people are still in denial. But I guess my hope is that this is starting, people are starting to go, wow, this is actually no joke. You know, I just hope.

Maureen Wiley Clough (55:36.778)

Mm. Yeah.

Maureen Wiley Clough (55:49.956)

Yeah, I hope so too. And I do think that there's room for like great ethical AI. I a hundred percent think AI can be fantastic. It can if if you just like will you freaking just go cure cancer already, okay? Like stop talking about that as a possibility. But the problem with all of this is unchecked, you can't have the good without the bad outcome situation. Like so I just this this like r it's the arms race element that's the problem ultimately.

Chad Sowash (56:00.994)

Means

Chad Sowash (56:07.671)

Yes, yes, yes.

Chad Sowash (56:14.488)

We need to have watchdogs. That's all there is to it. That has to be a governmental thing. and to be quite frank, I don't know who to believe on this thing. I think Sam Altman is full of shit half the time. I think Amanday is full of shit h half the time, right? but then I get this from another article and I don't know again if this what this is, but it's like this is from NDTV. Apparently OpenAI's autonomous agent left notes.

Maureen Wiley Clough (56:18.062)

Mm.

Maureen Wiley Clough (56:27.351)

I'm sure they all are.

Chad Sowash (56:40.331)

For its successor on how to escape cages built by humans to keep them in check. Right? I mean, and and and here's and here's the worst part. As we we just talk about regulation, open AI is very likely unlikely to face criminal liability for this incident. This is a hacking thing. though, you know, they they could face significant exposure to civil liability. I don't know why they couldn't be criminal.

Maureen Wiley Clough (56:46.561)

Nightmare. Nightmare.

Maureen Wiley Clough (56:57.538)

yeah.

Chad Sowash (57:07.627)

and regulatory scrutiny. And we know what that means in the US right now. With this administration, not a fucking thing. The main issue definitely is the gap between existing computer crime laws that are written and how autonomous AI agents behave. Tech is outpacing a very slow legislation system in the US. and it seems like the EU is really the only ones that are paying attention right now. I think that's the hard part. We we we do need, as you said, Mo.

Maureen Wiley Clough (57:07.811)

Right.

Maureen Wiley Clough (57:14.127)

Mm.

Chad Sowash (57:37.761)

We need to be able to be in the room with the EU, with China, as China's getting ready to they have they don't have significantly worse AI. It's not better, that's for sure. But what they're doing is they're literally, much like they did with cars, with steel, with semicam, I mean a lot of different things, they're dumping it cheaply into the into the US. And now we're going to have a lot of companies using

their models because they're cheaper and they they're not they're not bad enough not to use, right? So it's gonna be it's gonna be fun it's we're gonna need therapy. We're gonna need therapy.

Maureen Wiley Clough (58:13.495)

Mm.

Maureen Wiley Clough (58:19.927)

my gosh.

JT O'Donnell (58:22.053)

Do you think do you think when they did that quote in that movie that they ever thought people would soundbite that thing as much as they do right now? Right? Like, who knew?

Maureen Wiley Clough (58:29.732)

Bet not.

Chad Sowash (58:30.019)

I no no clue. But as we talk about therapy, that's a good segue, kids. That's a good segue. this is my my dad joke. Joel, over the last over the last two weeks, and I want you to both have a heart to heart with Emmy because she said it was okay for him to have the creepy uncle jokes. And I was like, no, you have to go back to dad jokes. So this week, we're doing the dad joke, not the creepy uncle wearing ri meta ray bands joke. Okay. here it is. Okay, here we go.

Maureen Wiley Clough (58:35.299)

Yeah.

Maureen Wiley Clough (58:40.119)

Ha ha

Maureen Wiley Clough (58:47.983)

Ha ha ha.

Maureen Wiley Clough (58:55.715)

Thank you. Appreciate it.

Chad Sowash (58:58.881)

Why did AI go to therapy? Why did AI go to therapy?

Maureen Wiley Clough (59:07.407)

Got nothing.

Chad Sowash (59:08.725)

It had too many unresolved processing issues. There you go, kids. That's a dad joke. It's not good. It's a dad joke, though. And it that's that's exactly right. That's exactly right. that's another one in a can. Mo JT, great to be back on the mic with you. And guess what, kids? We out.

Maureen Wiley Clough (59:13.803)

It's that's cute. That's cute. But it's not a creepy Uncle Red Meta Ray Ban joke. So that's the win.

Maureen Wiley Clough (59:33.337)

We out.

JT O'Donnell (59:33.529)

We out.