Gen Z Got Job Problems: AI Didn’t Kill the Resume. It Exposed It
Send In the Bots: Gen Z, Drum & Bass, and the Death of the Resume
The dinosaurs meet the algorithm as Chad and Cheese sit down with 23-year-old Holly Hobbs, co-founder of urfuture, TikTok career guru, and someone who visibly has no idea what a 1960s "Holly Hobbie" doll is (much to Joel’s immediate Gen-X despair).
Between decoding British drum and bass and discovering that Staines-upon-Thames gave the world both Ali G and Holly herself, the crew tackles the apocalyptic state of entry-level hiring. Holly survived 30+ apprenticeship rejections, ditched selling e-books to broke teenagers, and went straight to grilling Prime Ministers on social media.
In this episode, the gang covers:
Boomer Brainrot vs. TikTok Feeds
The Death of the Resume
Robot vs. Robot Warfare
Saturday Job Extinction
The "Lawnmower" Mentality
Put away your stock photos, stop asking 18-year-olds for five years of experience, and learn how behavioral matching might save us all from drowning in generic AI cover letters.
ENJOY!
PODCAST TRANSCRIPT:
Joel Cheesman (00:24.84)
yeah, it's the podcast your prime minister warns you about, also known as the Chad and Cheese podcast. Hey, boys and girls, I'm your co-host, Joel Cheesman. Joined as always, Chad Sowash is riding shotgun. As we welcome Holly Hobbs to the show, everybody. She's the co-founder of Your Future and Gen Z expert. Holly, welcome to HR's Most Dangerous Podcast.
Chad Sowash (00:31.254)
Who is that now? Who is that?
Holly Hobbs (00:41.228)
Hello?
Holly Hobbs (00:50.52)
Thank you so much for having me. I'm buzzing to be here.
Joel Cheesman (00:53.394)
We're excited to have you. So w was your mom a Holly Hobby reader? Is that how Holly Hob do you
Chad Sowash (00:53.711)
Yeah.
Holly Hobbs (00:59.022)
No, I don't even know what that is to be fair, no.
Joel Cheesman (01:01.986)
Okay, that's our first Gen X reference that the the Gen Z doesn't doesn't know. Yes. Kids book from the sixties. That was very popular. Okay. We're we're already falling flat on our face. Holly, a lot of our listeners
Chad Sowash (01:02.522)
okay. Yes. Kids books, yes, yes.
Holly Hobbs (01:04.727)
Hahaha
wow.
Chad Sowash (01:13.657)
Winnie the Pooh, are you Winnie the Pooh? See?
Holly Hobbs (01:16.622)
Her dot.
Joel Cheesman (01:17.19)
What would be your generation's c care SpongeBob? I don't he didn't do books. Who's the Bluey? Yeah, I know. I know.
Chad Sowash (01:22.887)
yeah, no. they don't read books anymore, you kidding me? Yeah. Blues clues. Did yeah, yeah. Fortnite. So you guys, you were brought up on Fortnite, see?
Holly Hobbs (01:23.822)
Mmm.
Yeah, literally. For us, it's like YouTube.
Joel Cheesman (01:32.306)
Bar Barney. Barney. Fort my God. Master Chief and Fortnite. Holly, for those of our listeners who aren't acquainted with you, tell us a little bit about you, your life. We'll get to the business stuff, but but what makes Holly tick?
Holly Hobbs (01:33.56)
Fortnite. yeah. Get us some Fortnite wrapping.
Chad Sowash (01:38.223)
Brought up on Fortnite, yes.
Holly Hobbs (01:52.771)
What makes me tick? bit of drum and bass. That's the kind of music that I like. I am originally from drum and bass. Yeah, that type of music.
Chad Sowash (01:56.756)
there we go. huh.
Joel Cheesman (02:01.839)
I'm sorry, talking about drum bass drum and bass. Okay. That's okay. All right. So okay. Some wolfers in the in the tr in the in the bed. Got it. All right. Okay.
Chad Sowash (02:06.543)
Some kick, yeah. Little kick bass, baby. Yeah.
Holly Hobbs (02:10.37)
That would be on my Twitter bio if I had X, but like I'm a Gen Z, we're more on TikTok. I am 23 years old from Staines upon Thames, which we were just talking about this before, but if people don't know where that is, that is where Ali G originates from or Fort Park, which you might know, or right next to Heathrow. And I'm now living in Manchester.
Chad Sowash (02:18.181)
There you go.
Joel Cheesman (02:36.121)
Allie G bringing the generations together. Who who knew? Who knew? He's got a new movie coming out. I assume you knew that. He's got a new flick coming out, yeah.
Holly Hobbs (02:39.649)
I know.
I didn't know today.
Joel Cheesman (02:47.193)
I can't believe people still don't know who Sasha is that he can still get away with this shit. But yeah, he he can't he can. He's just that good. He's just that good. Yeah.
Chad Sowash (02:51.194)
I know.
Holly Hobbs (02:53.678)
Just known as Ali G. Yeah. And I'm now living in Manchester for business, which yeah, we'll get into. But what else do you want to know? No, not.
Chad Sowash (03:04.942)
Not not a fan of the footballers. We've already talked about that.
Joel Cheesman (03:06.651)
Manchester, A Manchester, England, for our our American listeners, not new not not New Hampshire. Okay.
Holly Hobbs (03:10.99)
Yeah, sorry. And do you know what? And there's a sorry in the US as well. I realize that. it's sorry in the UK.
Chad Sowash (03:17.165)
Yeah, there's probably several.
Joel Cheesman (03:17.383)
Pretty much if it's in the UK, it's probably in America somewhere. Somewhere. Yeah, several and there there's a new or there's an old in front of it. There's yeah, all kinds of variations of it.
Holly Hobbs (03:20.736)
Yeah, true. True.
Chad Sowash (03:20.771)
yeah. And several of them. Yeah. And several of them. Yeah. There's a million Cambridges.
Holly Hobbs (03:28.492)
When I type it in TikTok, I'm like, our best restaurant in Surrey always comes up with the US. I'm like, my God, I didn't know they have one in the US. I'm like, no, please, it's the UK.
Joel Cheesman (03:37.233)
So Holly, I I I wanna s I wanna interject here. I I first learned about you when you interviewed then Prime Minister Keir Starma. I I'd like to know the story behind how you got that interview and what you thought of of his his take on the world of work and young people.
Holly Hobbs (03:45.346)
Mm-hmm.
Holly Hobbs (03:50.351)
yeah, interesting. Okay, well, I got the interview because basically I have a TikTok following of about 50,000 young people all looking to get their first job. And so that's apprenticeships, that's just the entry level job, etc. And one day got approached by number 10, because they're really trying to, as you can probably tell, even now, we've got the new Prime Minister Andy Burnham, they're really trying to use creators and social media to get their message out there.
Joel Cheesman (04:01.872)
Hello.
Joel Cheesman (04:14.065)
Mm-hmm.
Holly Hobbs (04:18.806)
So I got approached and ended up interviewing Keir Starmer about four or five times, I think. Crazy. All about like the new advances that were happening in like the career space and education and things like that. And just trying to get that message out there to young people rather than like a government press statement or whatever, because it just doesn't resonate. In terms of my experience and my thought about him.
Joel Cheesman (04:25.573)
Yeah.
Chad Sowash (04:34.713)
Mm-hmm.
Holly Hobbs (04:47.628)
I think like it's really hard to make a judgment because like I literally saw him for like a couple of minutes and it's a pre-determined question and he's obviously planned his answers but from what I saw about him like he was a really nice guy. He was quite personable in terms of before the interview he'd like he'd done his research about you and he was sort of commenting on what his team had done the research. Yeah.
Joel Cheesman (05:13.605)
His his team had done the research about you. But yeah, don't don't feel bad. Don't feel bad.
Chad Sowash (05:15.906)
Yeah.
Holly Hobbs (05:17.358)
Yeah, that's true. But you know, and then because I'd seen him so many times, he did actually remember me. He, at an event, he was walking past me and he was like, hey. And I was like, that's impressive then. So you got to him his juice, I guess.
Joel Cheesman (05:25.232)
Chad Sowash (05:33.093)
So quick question, how long do you think it's gonna take for Count Ben Face to become the PM it in in in in in in England?
Holly Hobbs (05:44.334)
count who? Who is this? No! I was like who the hell is that?
Chad Sowash (05:45.423)
Count Benface. You don't know you don't need you don't know Count Benface? Clacton by the Sea. He was, he was running against, he was, he was running, he was running against Nigel Farage for for the Clacton by the Sea seat, right? And so this is literally a dude that has a a garbage can head, and he literally was running again and did well.
Joel Cheesman (05:48.263)
I knew that was coming.
What's on the news, Chad? Does he does he have a TikTok? Does he have a TikTok channel?
Holly Hobbs (05:56.206)
you
Chad Sowash (06:13.145)
Did well. I can't believe it. He he was all over at least my TikToks. He was all over my TikToks, all over my Instagrams. yeah. Holly, where come on, come on.
Joel Cheesman (06:20.731)
Her her her algo's much different than yours, I'm sure, Chad. I'm sure. Yeah. Odd robotic politicians are in your feed. Probably not in hers. Probably not in hers.
Holly Hobbs (06:21.783)
How do I
Chad Sowash (06:24.137)
yeah. That says a lot about me.
Holly Hobbs (06:24.366)
That's true.
Holly Hobbs (06:28.366)
No, probably not. No, I'm never, I'm going to have to look that up afterwards.
Chad Sowash (06:31.813)
Well let's well let's get let let's get into you and the business side and and how you're how you made it to where you are right now. And it's really kind of funny because you're only 23. And I know that's that's old for you, but for us, I mean, 23, we've been in this industry longer than you've been alive, and that really smacks me square in the face. you're actually as as young as my youngest. but but at the end of the day, I mean it's awesome. How did you how did you get to where you are?
Holly Hobbs (06:43.222)
I know.
Joel Cheesman (06:45.297)
She's an old soul.
Yeah.
Holly Hobbs (06:49.416)
no!
wow.
Chad Sowash (07:00.889)
What what was the problem that you saw? And how did you go about fixing it? Just tell us a little bit about that journey before we dig in even deeper.
Holly Hobbs (07:08.718)
Yeah, okay. So not that long ago, as you can tell by my age, I was searching my first job and I was like, don't want to go uni, I want to get an apprenticeship. Long story short, apprenticeships are quite looks down, well, they were looks down on in the UK. was like when you're at college, you either go to university or you do an apprenticeship, God, type of thing. But actually, despite that, the apprenticeships were so competitive. So...
Chad Sowash (07:14.5)
Mm.
Joel Cheesman (07:29.127)
Mm-hmm.
Chad Sowash (07:29.133)
Holly Hobbs (07:34.359)
Before I got into Microsoft on their degree apprenticeship program, I faced like over 30 rejections. And I got into that and basically started to document my journey and share it on TikTok. And I used to, I gained traction quite quickly and built a community. And I used to get so many comments of young people saying, I'm the exact same. I can't get my first job. I'm really, really struggling. So I was like,
That was when I started my first business and I said to myself, I've been through all these rejections and learned so much so that I don't want someone else to have to go through that as well. And what I'd learn was about how to basically get through a process. instead of more, instead of learning more about being myself and trying to get that across to recruiters, it was about how do I put the right keywords on my CV? How do I like...
Chad Sowash (08:22.969)
The mechanics. Yeah. Yeah.
Holly Hobbs (08:23.018)
say the right thing. Yeah, all the mechanics because they don't teach you that at school. And if you don't have like parents or carers around you to have been through these processes to tell you if you want to get past an ATS, you've got to do this, then how the hell are you supposed to know that? So what happened was I started a business basically selling ebooks to young people all about like how to actually secure an apprenticeship and get through this process. Quickly realized that like
One, that's not a scalable business model. And two, I don't want to charge young people for that information that they should not have to pay for. And basically, then I basically pivoted my business model and started working with employers to help them create video content about what jobs actually mean for young people. Because that was like another part of the thing that I struggled with at school. was like, I read a job description, but in my head,
Chad Sowash (08:54.725)
Kudos. Kudos. I love her already.
Holly Hobbs (09:16.054)
and visually I can see what does that look like? What would I just don't understand it in a job description because I'd never experienced that before. So I started doing that. And then how I got to where I am now is because at the end of the day, I thought, well, I can keep trying to give tips to young people about how they can sort of gamify a process and get through a process. Or on the other side, I could actually go out there and try and
Chad Sowash (09:21.893)
Mm-hmm.
Holly Hobbs (09:41.067)
make a bit of a difference in the market and build something that changes that process entirely for entry level recruitment so that young people don't have to go in knowing how to get through an ATS or whatever and rather they can literally just show who they are and be themselves and that's how I joined into your future.
Joel Cheesman (09:59.26)
Holly, when you say apprenticeships, I just want to be sure as an American that's not a term that we generally use. Is that would would you say that's an entry level job, more of in the sort of hands on blue collar work arena, or am I misreading what apprenticeship is, like applying for an apprenticeship?
Holly Hobbs (10:04.394)
Yes, cool.
Holly Hobbs (10:10.894)
Yeah, so it is, they are entry level jobs, yeah, but they can be in blue colour roles and white colour roles. it basically in a, no, yeah, so you can be a school or college leaver, so 16 to 18 and plus, so you can do it when you're literally in your mid career, whatever, to do an apprenticeship.
Joel Cheesman (10:22.865)
But you just don't need a degree. Is that is that kind of the key? Okay.
Chad Sowash (10:33.017)
Mm.
Holly Hobbs (10:34.37)
And basically what happens is there's like loads of different levels to it from like GCSE level to masters and everything in between. And you do the job and then you study alongside and you get the qualification.
Chad Sowash (10:45.721)
So, so quick question around that, real quick, Joel. would you I mean, what we've seen in the US, and I would assume that it's pretty much that sounds like the same in the UK, is that we've just been told for for decades, you got to go to college. You can't do that apprenticeship stuff. now, today we know that's not the truth because plumbers and electricians and carpenters, they get paid a shit ton of cash. you know, and and that's not a bad thing. And we need them, right? They're they're in great need.
Holly Hobbs (11:07.477)
Yeah.
Holly Hobbs (11:13.294)
Mm.
Chad Sowash (11:13.429)
would you say, especially from a Microsoft standpoint, there's still blue collar opportunities out there? Would you say that that is a really good track for, you know, Gen Z to really look at and go after? Because even though society has said, no, no, no, go to college, go to university, that for you and your experience, it is that is that something that you would say that you would definitely advise for more Gen Zers? Yeah.
Holly Hobbs (11:38.187)
Yeah, 100%. And I think really in the UK over the last couple of years, because of like TikTok and apprentices posting about their journeys, actually the apprenticeship option at school has become much more respected. And people now do consider it alongside university a lot more. It's definitely not perfect and where it should be. But really what we're seeing now is that the people are either thinking university or apprenticeship.
And then they're forgetting about the entry level role. And it's like, actually there is just an entry level role, like a frontline role. Maybe it's like a warehouse operative or production assistant that is still just as good to start your career in. And actually you still can have progression in those types of roles as well, but they're not thought about as like a version of success when you leave school. So I think as well as an apprenticeship is such a good path to start on. And sometimes is looked down upon, like the entry level role is that too, basically.
Chad Sowash (12:15.578)
Mm-hmm.
Joel Cheesman (12:30.246)
Mm-hmm.
Joel Cheesman (12:35.335)
So you mentioned helping companies sort of connect with a younger worker through video, social media. I think a lot of companies are still trying to work that out. What is what does building an employer brand mean with your generation? Talk about that.
Holly Hobbs (12:49.038)
I think everyone throws around the word authentic when it comes to Gen Z, right? You've got to be authentic and you've got to show like that real side to your employer brand. And I think really in 2026 and beyond for Gen Z, like employer brand is about showing up in the spaces that they're in. And rather than like relying on people to go and search for their jobs and come to them.
Chad Sowash (13:10.756)
Mm-hmm.
Holly Hobbs (13:16.302)
For Gen Z, that's not how we've grown up with brands like in the consumer space. Like TikTok, it serves us videos that we never thought about. Spotify, we get music that we'd never even thought about. YouTube, do you what mean? All these apps that we've grown up with serve us and recommend us things. And I think employer branding in 2026 really needs to catch up with that sort of way of doing things and that method. But also,
Chad Sowash (13:31.429)
Mm-hmm.
Chad Sowash (13:42.5)
Mm-hmm.
Holly Hobbs (13:44.373)
Not only that, it's about like how they actually market and making things more visual and bringing people in because I mean, it's always been like this people buying to people, obviously, it's not just a Gen Z thing, but it becomes even more prevalent with Gen Z and like that word, authentic authenticity comes in there where it's like your reach as an employer and as a brand is so much greater when you actually get your people to post out there and do that.
and tell stories and that's what is really going to move things with you for Gen Z is like getting your people front and centre and showing who they are and showing their journeys and their stories.
Joel Cheesman (14:23.271)
You saying we can't just post jobs and some stock photos. Is that what you're saying? Damn it.
Chad Sowash (14:26.523)
Ha ha ha ha.
Holly Hobbs (14:26.894)
Yeah. Yes.
Chad Sowash (14:30.767)
So so the the the thing that always got me was and I've seen here as of late, at least in Silicon Valley and even in DC. last time we were in DC, we actually saw we saw ads, employment ads. And it was it was literally if you want if you want to work hard, if you want to you're gonna work 70 hours a week, it's gonna be hard, it's gonna be stressful. And I mean, you have many companies that are coming out now and they're literally being more transparent about look, we are going to
Holly Hobbs (14:50.882)
Mm-hmm.
Holly Hobbs (14:57.9)
Yeah, I love that.
Chad Sowash (14:59.459)
We are going to work you hard. But there are people that are out there that they want that kind of culture, right? They want to build, they want to be a part of something that's, you know, at ground level in some cases. do you see more of that happening where there, I mean, you could call definitely call that authenticity because hey, look, I'm being transparent. I'm not gonna bullshit you. This is what we're looking for. If this is you, it it's great because it actually filters out a lot of people. They're like, I don't want to work 70 hours a fucking week. Are you kidding me? Right. So
Holly Hobbs (15:01.474)
Mm.
Mm.
Holly Hobbs (15:14.702)
Mm.
Holly Hobbs (15:18.326)
Of course.
Holly Hobbs (15:25.086)
Exactly, yeah.
Chad Sowash (15:26.925)
W is is that kind of like a a format that you would go after is is like, look, just tell people how it is for God's sakes. Or is that how the employee engagement actually happens, the stories?
Holly Hobbs (15:33.39)
my god, a hundred percent.
No, I think that is just such a better method to do it. Like, if that's the true reality of the job, just tell people, you know? And I think sometimes we can really over glamorise things and try and like miss out those bits just because you think it'll put people off. But like you say, it's like, well, then you're just removing the people that aren't interested at all. And I think in, I don't know about the US, but in the UK specifically.
Chad Sowash (15:45.381)
Mm-hmm.
Holly Hobbs (16:06.528)
Some employers obviously have like diversity targets that they want to hit and things like that. And they sort of take it bit of a different step and a step further than that in terms of who they want to attract as well. Some employers go out and they say specifically, this job advert is for attracting young females into engineering only. Obviously males can still use it to apply, but they can't legally do that properly. But there's like a whole nother level to it where they're like,
Now we're just focusing this specific advert on this specific demographic as well. Not only just like the reality of the roles, it's like we're targeting a whole specific individual, really.
Chad Sowash (16:44.185)
Mm-hmm. Gotcha.
Joel Cheesman (16:45.605)
Now you're talking about authenticity, being, you know, yourself, but what we're hearing, Holly, is the robots are taking over. everyone's auto applying to everything. The kids are just pushing a button. The companies are just having bots interview people. Like, give us your take on the state of of job search right now with young people. Is the is the narrative correct about automation or are we missing something?
Chad Sowash (16:53.391)
Yeah.
Holly Hobbs (16:56.397)
Mm-hmm.
Holly Hobbs (17:09.762)
Yes, it is correct. And basically AI, I don't think has killed the application. AI has basically just like completely highlighted how broken the application was in the first place, right? So like it's highlighted basically how useless a traditional application was because people can now use AI to completely expedite that process. And like there's now easy apply
options. I think the industry as a whole is now valued 600 million, like the AI auto apply industry. It's absolutely crazy. And basically, as well as like Gen Z, basically killing like things like the job board and how they apply, I think employers are actually also starting to kill that sort of method. Because there's an expectation that like
Chad Sowash (17:40.975)
Mm-hmm.
Holly Hobbs (18:08.224)
Now, candidates, instead of them expecting that candidates should come to them, they're now thinking like, actually, we need to be going out to candidates because we're getting so many applications with this AI influx. We're not getting the right people. We're getting really low quality applications and we need to go out there and find the right people.
Chad Sowash (18:23.161)
Mm.
Joel Cheesman (18:32.785)
So the days of posting jobs and the future of the job board itself, you think, is in in jeopardy. Is that what I'm hearing?
Holly Hobbs (18:40.756)
Yeah, I think like for entry level, the job board is just not useful for young people because there's a stat that says this is in the UK, about 69 % of young, no 79 % sorry, of young people leaving school or college confused on their next steps. So they're leaving school college with no idea of what they want to do. And then they're going to a job board.
Chad Sowash (18:54.319)
Mm-hmm.
Holly Hobbs (19:09.002)
And I think indeed said themselves about 20 % of their global search is blank search. Obviously, I don't know all that status for young people, but they're going to these platforms and they are not having any idea of what to search because the school system's not supporting them with what to search. And then the actual information that these job boards are getting from them as well is not helping them actually get through the process because
They've got no experience to show for themselves. So like when they're applying to a job and right now in the UK, there's a bit of like, the death of the Saturday job and how young people literally can't get any Saturday jobs because actually what's happening is because of redundancies and AI and like cost of living, loads of adults and like people that are in their mid career and stuff like that are getting second jobs and are going to supermarkets and things like that because they need the extra income.
So when people are applying for their first jobs and they're up against someone who's got lot of experience on a CV, it's much less risky for an employer to go and pick the person that has all that experience and the person that's got nothing to write on their CV because they're what's the word, compared. They're being compared on the wrong thing.
Chad Sowash (20:11.354)
Mm-hmm.
Joel Cheesman (20:27.527)
Mm-hmm.
Chad Sowash (20:29.657)
So from my standpoint, in in what the whole searching the the blank search says, and it's said for it's said for years, and and you can actually take a look at locations in doing those searches to see which areas are dispress depressed, right? So there's a lot of desperation that's out there. There are individuals that are mid mid career that literally they've got to look for that second job because they can't they can't pay the bills with what they're currently getting.
Holly Hobbs (20:46.903)
Mmm.
Holly Hobbs (20:57.355)
Exactly.
Chad Sowash (20:58.219)
And and this starts the whole problem. This starts the Gen Z versus millennials versus boomers, right? Because boomers should be out of the damn way already, but they're still coming in and they're taking like part-time jobs here and there, you know, stocking, doing stuff at Walmart just because they got they got time on their hands, right? so at the end of the day, it it feels like the problem of the market as a whole.
Joel Cheesman (21:18.502)
Mm-hmm.
Chad Sowash (21:26.743)
Is being pushed down on this feud between the the generations, right? What do you what do you what do you think about that?
Holly Hobbs (21:35.097)
It's an interesting point. I think it's about how we're comparing people on the wrong thing. Like, I think that if we actually are thinking about who's the right person for the job, actually when it's like an entry level job, experience doesn't always mean that that person is going to be the right individual for it and is going to like progress and get to where that company wants them to be, for example. And so like,
using things like the CV, we're not comparing them on the right thing. And I think actually we need to be thinking about who is that person as an individual down to like their traits that they have. What, for example, if it was a care role, how do they, are they a compassionate person? Like, do they communicate with people? These things that actually predict success in the role is what we should be comparing candidates on when it's something like an entry level job, because then people are actually, there's actually going to be a fair
Joel Cheesman (22:32.486)
Mm-hmm.
Holly Hobbs (22:35.594)
level playing field rather than just who's got the most experience.
Chad Sowash (22:41.455)
It sounds like apprenticeships to be quite frank. I mean, because you get somebody in there, you can see what kind of person they are, because you start talking about empathy, you start talking about all these things. In an interview, anybody, even cheeseman can can can fake empathy. I mean, he can't. I I I've seen it. I've seen it done. you can fake some of these qualities, right? But only being able to go through and and go through,
Joel Cheesman (22:54.535)
True. It's true.
Chad Sowash (23:04.77)
These internships, these apprenticeships, those types of things where you actually get the opportunity to see the individual work is the key. But the problem is companies want it right now. They don't want to wait, right? We are not, we are not in the mindset of, okay, we can take a quarter or we can take a year or we can take, you know, even a few weeks. It's like we need to make a decision right now. So how do you get past that? And how do you get your head from an expectation standpoint around that?
Holly Hobbs (23:16.11)
Mm.
Chad Sowash (23:33.827)
You've got you've got to be perfect on the interview right out of the gate because there there's unless you're doing an apprenticeship, it's it's gotta be that day and that time and you're going against millennials, Xers, Boomers, et cetera.
Holly Hobbs (23:38.167)
Mm.
Holly Hobbs (23:47.471)
I know it's really difficult. mean, I personally think how we actually do that is, I know I keep harping on about it, but at the start, if you actually understand about who an individual is as a person, so instead of using a CV, maybe you do like, and we can get onto this, but like you match them using behaviors and you get out like the behavioral sort of profile of an individual.
Chad Sowash (23:54.821)
Mm-hmm.
Holly Hobbs (24:16.662)
If you have that information at the beginning about every single person and you've assessed them and you've got like data points about them and things like that, you can use AI for example, to help you understand their data points and actually work out what questions would be best to ask that individual to get that right information out of them and make it a more personalised experience. think that is the main thing that obviously Gen Z.
Chad Sowash (24:20.89)
Mm-hmm.
Chad Sowash (24:41.285)
A lot of companies aren't looking for that though, though. They just want the skill. I mean, that's the difference is like the behavioral components, which are incredibly important. But they're looking past all that stuff and they're like, Can they do the job? You know? So I mean, there are two sides of this. There's the hard, the hard part, the skills, can you do it? And the soft skill side of the house.
Holly Hobbs (24:48.909)
Mm.
Holly Hobbs (24:52.254)
Mmm. Yeah. Mmm.
Holly Hobbs (25:00.214)
Yeah. mean, specifically for like the space we're in and the companies that we work with, like for the entry level job, it's not difficult and it's not rocket science to train someone up into that. Right. So like when we're talking about aging workforces and trying to get that next sort of generation of talent into their businesses, you have to take the hit with that sometimes. you know, if you're going to want to bridge that aging workforce gap, you can't.
Chad Sowash (25:04.164)
Mm-hmm.
Holly Hobbs (25:28.308)
expect someone to come in with the right skill. And when it's entry level and you've got boomers or whoever that they can learn from, if they've got the right traits that predict success in the role, then it's not going to be difficult for them to get up to speed.
Chad Sowash (25:36.026)
Mm-hmm.
Joel Cheesman (25:45.037)
Holly, you have 50,000, you said, TikTok followers that mostly in this age range and 5001. There you go. You you you have a unique take on, I guess I call it the state of mind of of young people. on one hand, you know, entry-level jobs are quote unquote going away. AI is taking all some of these jobs, but then you also hear about
Holly Hobbs (25:48.355)
Yes.
Chad Sowash (25:49.721)
Fifty thousand and one now, I just started following.
Holly Hobbs (25:52.014)
brilliant.
Holly Hobbs (25:58.702)
Yeah.
Joel Cheesman (26:10.053)
more businesses being created by young people and you're an example of that, frankly, or s you know, buying a franchise or do you know doing gig work. Wha what's your take on just sort of the state of young people right now? Are they optimistic? Are they doom and gloom? What's what's your take? 'Cause you talk to a lot of these these folks.
Holly Hobbs (26:28.654)
Do know what? It's a real mix. In regards to actually getting jobs, there's a lot going around on social media about how difficult it is. And it's quite a negative talk. I speak to employers a lot about it. And I say like, the messaging is so mixed. Young people are seeing how it takes 100, 200.
goes and applications to even get their first job. Whereas on the other side, it's like employers really want people to submit high quality, few applications that they can actually understand why they wanted to apply for that company. And so like, there's also the narrative around, well it's not a narrative, the stat around like how there's almost 1 million young people right now who are neat, not in employment, educational training in the UK. And so in regards to that,
Chad Sowash (27:17.935)
Mm-hmm.
Holly Hobbs (27:21.236)
it's a concern, it's worrying and people are worried about how the hell they're even going to get on their career ladders. But then I'd say like there is another half to it, which is that optimistic side, which is like there's never been so much opportunity out there. We've got access to social media, which like our parents never had access to, which has so much information on there. And we can start.
Chad Sowash (27:31.002)
Mm-hmm.
Holly Hobbs (27:47.661)
But a business we can like, we don't have to rely necessarily on being employed. Like there is that sort of nuance there. And, sorry, there was just a fly on my face then. There is a lot more Gen Z directors like our age on company's house compared to other generations. So you could definitely see that in the numbers as well. It's really mixed to be honest, but I think.
Chad Sowash (27:56.047)
Mm-hmm.
Holly Hobbs (28:16.344)
The important thing is, is that it's not the same for everyone because not everyone comes from the same background where they can just go and start a business when they're younger and like they've got a laptop or they've got a network or whatever it is. So actually we, you know, there's still a lot to be done in that other space.
Chad Sowash (28:25.997)
Right. Yeah.
Joel Cheesman (28:35.237)
Have you have you found a way to to divide the positive people and the negative? Like is there a common tr thread between the ones that are positive and the ones that aren't?
Holly Hobbs (28:45.572)
that's a good question.
Holly Hobbs (28:55.894)
I've got like, I've got a visual image in my head and I'm just thinking how do I explain it? Yeah, how do I explain it on the map?
Joel Cheesman (29:01.103)
negative is someone from Birmingham who's worked in a coal mine his whole life. Yeah.
Chad Sowash (29:03.311)
Yeah.
Holly Hobbs (29:11.33)
To be honest, like...
I think it's, it's more about your background and like how you've grown up and your mindset and mentality. That's, but I think that's been across all generations really. Like the people that really go out there and think like, if I can't get a job, it's fine. I can do this is because maybe they've had, I don't know, some sort of uncertainty in their childhood and they're like, they want to not have that happen to them in
Chad Sowash (29:22.629)
Mm-hmm.
Joel Cheesman (29:26.032)
Okay.
Holly Hobbs (29:43.096)
their adulthood and then they have this motivation to go out and then yeah, it's just, it's really dependent. There's not like a, yeah, this is this type of person. This is this type of person.
Chad Sowash (29:53.797)
So would you would you suggest that if you if you can, if you can for for Gen Z to be able to, because as you said, many, they just don't have any, you know, work history, right? They're they're going to school, they're trying to get into an apprenticeship or what have you. Would you suggest they start some type of side hustle or something, you know, while they're still living at mom and dad's to start to to to get into the workforce, to start to create that network. What would you suggest they do to be able to get ahead?
Holly Hobbs (30:24.152)
Well, my suggestion would be like, don't wait for someone to give you experience. You can't rely on someone giving you a yes to get the job. You've got to go and make that. Yeah, you've got to go and take that and make that opportunity. I think there's a saying that says, is every, no, sorry, it was the other one. Opportunity isn't everywhere.
Chad Sowash (30:31.823)
Take it.
Holly Hobbs (30:50.282)
access, I should have researched this before. Something about like how something is everywhere, access to opportunity is not. I'm gonna have to research it after, sorry. But basically, a saying around how like, opportunity is everywhere, but like, no, because I think it's the other way around where they say that opportunity isn't everywhere, but I can't remember.
Chad Sowash (30:52.606)
yeah. The access to opportunity.
Chad Sowash (31:02.405)
Ha ha ha.
Holly Hobbs (31:17.474)
But I just personally think that there's so much opportunity out there and like it's up to you to go and build your network and go and grasp that because you can't rely on other people to like give you what you want and get you to where you want to be. So I personally was starting Upside Hustles when I was younger. I was like trying to do as much as I can to build up my own experience that gave me transferable skills that I could then go and speak to employers about.
Chad Sowash (31:26.521)
Mm-hmm.
Holly Hobbs (31:46.809)
But it's not even about that as well. It's like, not everyone, maybe someone's a carer or maybe they've got different responsibilities. Not everyone's going to be able to go out and do that. So I think the things that you do at school can still be used in work environments. So when you're in your first interview, you've never had a job before. There's loads of skills that you've built up in projects that you've done at school and things like that, that you can tell employers about.
A lot of employers say that they want to know about you as an individual at the entry level, not about what you've done.
Joel Cheesman (32:15.463)
She she
Chad Sowash (32:20.321)
Mm-hmm. So is it talent is everywhere, opportunity is not? Boom. Yes.
Holly Hobbs (32:24.866)
That's it. thank God you found it. Talent is everywhere, opportunity is not. And I always say that I disagree with that. I say opportunity is everywhere. Talent is everywhere. don't agree with opportunity is not everywhere. It is, it's just about the access to the opportunity that is not everywhere and that is not fair.
Joel Cheesman (32:25.797)
Yeah.
Thanks, Google. Thanks, Google.
Chad Sowash (32:34.757)
Mm.
Chad Sowash (32:44.611)
Mm.
Joel Cheesman (32:46.887)
She sounds like a a lot like a Gen Xer, Chad. You're on your own, dude. Figure it out. You're on your own. Here's a key to the house. figure it out. Holly, I'm gonna Holly, I'm gonna let you add on this. You you you talk about the end of the job board of the traditional posting jobs and you have to go where the the pe the the workers are. What's your take on the the future of the the resume, the C V?
Chad Sowash (32:49.433)
He does.
Holly Hobbs (32:51.207)
Yeah.
Chad Sowash (32:53.133)
made my own. Yeah, but she's helping others.
Holly Hobbs (33:08.648)
this is an interesting one. I think the CV hates to be that person that says it, but the CV is dead for entry level recruitment. I think that so many companies we speak to are just drowning in identical CVs because of AI. Every CV looks the same and everyone says that AI has like made the CV die. I disagree. think AI has just highlighted how bad that the CV was in the first place.
And like for entry level recruitment, it tells us nothing about a person and every CV looks the same. And what's happening is the people that have access to like chat GPT subscriptions and things like that, they end up getting their CV to look marginally better than someone else's because they've paid for a subscription and it's just making us not have an equal playing field. I mean, even CV library did a...
research recently and they said that 69 % of recruiters say that AI generated applications make strong candidates harder to identify and then 70 % of candidates said that AI makes it harder to stand out and only 30%, 29 % admitted that they changed their CV or cover letter because they thought someone may screen it. So they're not getting a true representation of
Chad Sowash (34:19.514)
Mm.
Holly Hobbs (34:33.846)
individuals that are applying for their job and they're just it takes so much more time to go through all these CVs and and try and understand who's right for the role.
Chad Sowash (34:44.485)
Well, Holly, I have to say that I I I love hearing your story. Love hearing 23 co-founder and chief communications officer at your future.io. If you haven't checked it out, go check it out. Holly, if somebody wants to connect with you or they want to find out more about what you're doing out there, your TikTok accounts, all that other fun stuff, where would you send them?
Holly Hobbs (35:06.028)
I send them to my LinkedIn, which is just hollyhobs. And then my TikTok is howtogetajobuk.
Joel Cheesman (35:14.692)
AI hasn't killed the resume. It's highlighted how bad the resume system is. That's a hot take on the Chad and Cheese podcast, everybody. Chad, that's another one in the can. We out.
Chad Sowash (35:19.429)
Sought.
Holly Hobbs (35:21.804)
Hahaha
Chad Sowash (35:25.027)
Yeah, we out.
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